Tom Brady or Peyton Manning - Page 2


 Topic: Tom Brady or Peyton Manning
Users reading this topic: There are no members reading this topic.
Poll: Peyton or Brady?
10 vote(s) since September 9, 2014 03:15
Peyton Manning (5) (50%)
Tom Brady (5) (50%)
  Posted on September 9, 2014 13:44
EvanGrant
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Daimyo

Posts: 5166
Joined on:
February 21, 2007
#16
^ Like I was saying though, literally the only argument I ever hear for why Brady is better than Manning is because Brady has more rings, or they state that Brady is more "clutch" based solely on the fact that Brady has more rings, completely ignoring stats like how Manning has more 4th quarter comebacks. I rarely ever come across someone who states Brady is better (or in your case, equal with Manning) that presents a legitimate argument based on stats, you being one of the few.

And let's not forget that Brady had Randy Moss, arguably one of the best receivers in NFL history, during his run in 07, and had a young Welker at the time. And ever since losing Moss, he hasn't come even close to his performance, both record-wise and stat-wise. And if you're gonna tell me anyone on the Broncos even come close to Moss's talent, I don't even know what to say. Not to mention Manning completely man-handled the record books at the age of 37 with a supporting cast that wasn't as good as Brady's (who was in his prime at the time) 07 cast. Patriots have always had a decent run game, but the Colts has always been below average (even with Joseph Addai). Once Marvin Harrison left, Reggie Wayne (and maybe Dallas Clark for a season or two) were the only good players Manning had left on his offense to give the ball to. Other than that it was full of nobodies that Manning turned into somebodies, like Anthony Gonzalez. Brady on the other hand had Wes Welker for a good part of his career, then later had one of the greatest tight end duos the NFL has ever seen in Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. So no, I wouldn't dare say that Manning has had a better supporting cast than Brady, and the fact that Manning has better stats with a worse supporting cast only further proves my point that Manning is better than Brady.

Edit: Dude. Did you just list Brandon Stokely as a good target that Manning had? I had to look his name up to know who he was, and he's only had one season over 650 receiving yards and 5 receiving touchdowns...

Dallas Clark had a beast 09 season, but other than that he hasn't been too impressive.

Harrison was a beast until his injury in 07. Then he sucked the next season and retired.

Edgerrin James was good, but left in 06 for the Cardinals, where his stats (unsurprisingly) dropped

Joseph Addai was never that good. He did have two seasons with 1,000+ yards, but those were his first two seasons (06 and 07), but since then, he has only had one season with 550+ yards.

So like I was saying, ever since 06/07, Manning's cast was especially awful, and as you can see from everyone who left the Colts (Edgerrin James, Brandon Stokely, Dalas Clark etc) their stats significantly dropped. Pierre Garcon has been the only exception.

And in my opinion, Eric Decker isn't anything above an average receiver. Thomas was going up against the #1 corner, the #2 was lining across Welker, so Decker was lining up against the #3 player. How many teams have more than one dominant cornerback, let alone two? So yeah, Decker put up good stats, but let's see how he does with the Jets when he's the #1 target instead of the fourth option behind the Thomas duo and Welker.

D. Thomas isn't on the level that Randy Moss was in 07, and clearly the 07 Welker that Brady had would've been better than the post-concussion Welker that Manning had last season. I'll admit though that J. Thomas was better than whatever TE the Pats had in 07, but that's the only thing Manning had better last season than Brady did in 07 offensive-wise. And like I said earlier, Brady was in his prime and at the top of his game in 07, but still was considerably outperformed by Manning's less impressive supporting cast last season when he was 37.
  Posted on September 9, 2014 19:22
ninjaboy002
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Jounin

Posts: 1139
Joined on:
November 13, 2006
#17
Shinobi-no-Kami wrote:
MVPs are a joke. Almost as big of a joke as pro-bowl votes at this point. I don't even know the last time the most valuable player in the league actually won the award.
2012
  Posted on September 9, 2014 20:05
Spirit_in_Black
Rank: admin

Forum Rank:
Say My Name

Posts: 3823
Joined on:
June 2, 2007
#18
Peyton Manning is arguably the best QB to ever play this game, if not the greatest.

Using championships as a mean to separate who is better is ridiculous. By that standard Robert Horry is greater than 99.9% of every sports athlete that has ever lived. Championships are always won by the better team, or the luckiest since the NFL is not a best of thus allowing that possibility of happening, and assuming otherwise means you don't understand how sports work. (Not to mention Patriots have always had one of the best coaches of all time while Peyton has not.)

Also, for what it's worth, Peyton Manning has a higher Quarterback Rating than Tom Brady has as well in the playoffs. Yet some people want to believe he doesn't perform well when it matters the most ... ? Besides, it's actually been a very long time since you can actually pin any one singular playoff loss on Peyton. The last one you can is in 2004, which is a decade ago. Brady, on the other hand, you can put 2, or 3, on him during that same stretch -- depending upon how you view the Bronco game in 2006 (which he got pick six'd by Champ Bailey; I blame this loss on him.) So, let that sink in awhile.

In either case, it's gotten to the point, as of late, that the question should be really Peyton Manning vs Drew Brees for the best Quarterback of this generation as he's the only one who has been able to rival Peyton's brilliance and successfully eclipse him in playoff numbers as well -- while never being the reason the Saints lose. Rodgers as well, potentially, if he continues at his pace for a few more seasons. It's not Brady though.

Predictions since 2013

NFL Regular Season: 342 - 168 - 2 (Playoffs: 19 - 3) || MLB Playoffs: 12 - 6 || NBA Playoffs: 40 - 5
NHL Playoffs: 38 - 7

2013 Grand Slam Champion (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, NCAA Basketball/Football)
  Posted on September 9, 2014 23:13
Shinobi-no-Kami
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 83
Joined on:
April 5, 2012
#19
EvanGrant wrote:
^ Like I was saying though, literally the only argument I ever hear for why Brady is better than Manning is because Brady has more rings, or they state that Brady is more "clutch" based solely on the fact that Brady has more rings, completely ignoring stats like how Manning has more 4th quarter comebacks. I rarely ever come across someone who states Brady is better (or in your case, equal with Manning) that presents a legitimate argument based on stats, you being one of the few.

And let's not forget that Brady had Randy Moss, arguably one of the best receivers in NFL history, during his run in 07, and had a young Welker at the time. And ever since losing Moss, he hasn't come even close to his performance, both record-wise and stat-wise. And if you're gonna tell me anyone on the Broncos even come close to Moss's talent, I don't even know what to say. Not to mention Manning completely man-handled the record books at the age of 37 with a supporting cast that wasn't as good as Brady's (who was in his prime at the time) 07 cast. Patriots have always had a decent run game, but the Colts has always been below average (even with Joseph Addai). Once Marvin Harrison left, Reggie Wayne (and maybe Dallas Clark for a season or two) were the only good players Manning had left on his offense to give the ball to. Other than that it was full of nobodies that Manning turned into somebodies, like Anthony Gonzalez. Brady on the other hand had Wes Welker for a good part of his career, then later had one of the greatest tight end duos the NFL has ever seen in Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. So no, I wouldn't dare say that Manning has had a better supporting cast than Brady, and the fact that Manning has better stats with a worse supporting cast only further proves my point that Manning is better than Brady.

Edit: Dude. Did you just list Brandon Stokely as a good target that Manning had? I had to look his name up to know who he was, and he's only had one season over 650 receiving yards and 5 receiving touchdowns...

Dallas Clark had a beast 09 season, but other than that he hasn't been too impressive.

Harrison was a beast until his injury in 07. Then he sucked the next season and retired.

Edgerrin James was good, but left in 06 for the Cardinals, where his stats (unsurprisingly) dropped

Joseph Addai was never that good. He did have two seasons with 1,000+ yards, but those were his first two seasons (06 and 07), but since then, he has only had one season with 550+ yards.

So like I was saying, ever since 06/07, Manning's cast was especially awful, and as you can see from everyone who left the Colts (Edgerrin James, Brandon Stokely, Dalas Clark etc) their stats significantly dropped. Pierre Garcon has been the only exception.

And in my opinion, Eric Decker isn't anything above an average receiver. Thomas was going up against the #1 corner, the #2 was lining across Welker, so Decker was lining up against the #3 player. How many teams have more than one dominant cornerback, let alone two? So yeah, Decker put up good stats, but let's see how he does with the Jets when he's the #1 target instead of the fourth option behind the Thomas duo and Welker.

D. Thomas isn't on the level that Randy Moss was in 07, and clearly the 07 Welker that Brady had would've been better than the post-concussion Welker that Manning had last season. I'll admit though that J. Thomas was better than whatever TE the Pats had in 07, but that's the only thing Manning had better last season than Brady did in 07 offensive-wise. And like I said earlier, Brady was in his prime and at the top of his game in 07, but still was considerably outperformed by Manning's less impressive supporting cast last season when he was 37.

Brandon Stokely wasn't incredible, but when surrounded by Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and Edgerrin James on offense, he becomes the 5th biggest threat on their offense, and having a solid #3 WR be just your 5th biggest threat is incredible. He was often matching up with the opposing team's 4th or 5th best player in coverage. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne both could demand double teams. James was a solid receiving back on top of a dominant runner.

And no, since 06/07, Manning's cast has not been awful. 08/09/10 weren't very good years, but even then he had Wayne and Garcon, among others. Slightly above average at worst.

And I brought up the 5 years Brady had a great supporting cast, I didn't ignore that. Simply pointed out how he's had a great supporting cast, on offense, far less often than Manning has, yet has put up similar numbers.

No, Manning hasn't done better with less. Rarely ever has Manning had a worse supporting cast than Brady. You can make that argument for only 5 years of their careers.

Qoute:
Peyton Manning is arguably the best QB to ever play this game, if not the greatest.

Using championships as a mean to separate who is better is ridiculous. By that standard Robert Horry is greater than 99.9% of every sports athlete that has ever lived. Championships are always won by the better team, or the luckiest since the NFL is not a best of thus allowing that possibility of happening, and assuming otherwise means you don't understand how sports work. (Not to mention Patriots have always had one of the best coaches of all time while Peyton has not.)

No one here that has bothered typing a meaningful response has listed the championships they've won in an argument as to why one is better than the other, as far as I can tell. Pretty sure Evan was trying to be sarcastic with claiming 3 rings is the only thing Brady has over Peyton.

Qoute:
Also, for what it's worth, Peyton Manning has a higher Quarterback Rating than Tom Brady has as well in the playoffs. Yet some people want to believe he doesn't perform well when it matters the most ... ? Besides, it's actually been a very long time since you can actually pin any one singular playoff loss on Peyton. The last one you can is in 2004, which is a decade ago. Brady, on the other hand, you can put 2, or 3, on him during that same stretch -- depending upon how you view the Bronco game in 2006 (which he got pick six'd by Champ Bailey; I blame this loss on him.) So, let that sink in awhile.

Their QB ratings are practically the same in the post season. Hardly any difference. And Peyton didn't really play well enough to win any of the games in the superbowl run he had, short of the New England game. So I mean, they didn't lose, but Peyton certainly wasn't the reason they won those games.

But the performing when it matters most argument is silly. Both perform well when it matters most. More and more stats you look at, the more and more obvious it appears they're pretty much equals in every aspect.

Qoute:
In either case, it's gotten to the point, as of late, that the question should be really Peyton Manning vs Drew Brees for the best Quarterback of this generation as he's the only one who has been able to rival Peyton's brilliance and successfully eclipse him in playoff numbers as well -- while never being the reason the Saints lose. Rodgers as well, potentially, if he continues at his pace for a few more seasons. It's not Brady though.

Now this.. this is silly. I like Brees, a lot. He's great, probably even a top 10 QB of all time when it's all said and done, but he's not on Peyton and Brady's level, and there's a couple reasons for that.

Reason #1 - Brees was a good QB in San Diego, but all of the sudden he goes to New Orleans under Sean Payton and turns in to some statistical god? I wonder why that is. Brees has had the luxury of having the same offensive coordinator and head coach his entire tenure in New Orleans(well, outside of the year Payton was suspended), and it's been the exact same system year after year.

Brady has ran the same scheme(Erhardt-Perkins) his entire career, but he's ran 3 drastically different versions of it. Under Charlie Weis it was a short pass/quick read offense designed to drain the clock You can check their ypp each year under Weis and see how drastically different it is in comparison to Josh McDaniels' version of the Erhardt-Perkins, which when he finally got the pieces he wanted for the offense, turned in to the vertical, quick scoring offense. After that, Bill O'Brien comes in and begins the huge/athletic tight end trend with Hernandez and Gronk, and mixes Weis' and McDaniels' version of the offense, with the tight ends offering a lot of help in the intermediate passing game, something the Pats hadn't quite had before. It'd pretty much always been short or long.

Peyton Manning has run the same (Tom Moore version) of the Air Coryell offense for the majority of his career, but he and Moore adapted it and changed it as the years went on and their offensive weapons changed. They lost Marvin Harrison, so they get rid of a lot of their deep passing and let Manning's quick reads dominate the defense with slants and outs.

Manning and Brady have proven they can adjust their offenses and still perform at an elite level. Brees?

Well, Brees has done the same thing his entire career. Not trying to knock him here, cause this system has put up ungodly(and consistent) numbers, but he's not shown the same ability to adapt as Manning and Brady. He's not shown that versatility as a QB to shed himself from the "system QB" label. Montana, Manning, Brady and others that have an argument to be placed at that #1 overall spot did at various points in their career, even though they stayed within the same scheme.

For Brees it's always been screen, screen, screen, deep pass. That's been their passing offense. That's the way Sean Payton likes it, and that's what is effective. Now this does not mean Drew Brees doesn't have the ABILITY to change/adapt the scheme, but he hasn't, because the Saints have never forced him to cause whenever they lose a player, they bring one in that fits the role left behind perfectly.

Reason #2 - In correlation to his stats, they're greatly boosted by where he plays and the division he plays in. He plays in the Superdome 8 games a season. Plays in the Georgia dome 1 game a season. Plays in Tampa 1 game a season. That's 9 games in a dome and 1 game in a outdoors stadium that rarely ever sees harsh weather, in terms of effecting the passing of the football. 10 games he gets to play in ideal situations.

While Peyton played in a dome the majority of his career, he's gone on to prove in Denver that elements don't really bother him. Brady has obviously proven that over the years in New England. Brees, even before New Orleans, played in San Diego, with road games in Oakland giving him another 9 games of generally ideal weather a year.

You look at the playoffs and Brees' numbers would drop well in line with Brady and Peyton's when just factoring in the road games. 10 TDs - O INTs in the superdome, The Indy/NO superbowl was played in ideal situations so not sure I like counting it, but even with that counted he's at 12 TDS - 5 interceptions. Drops to 10-5 without the Indy game. Again, numbers that are in line with Brady and Peyton in the playoffs. 2:1
TD/INT ratio.

Now I'm not saying Brees is a bad road QB. He's not. He's still pretty damn good on the road. But his overall road stats, in regular season and playoffs, are worse than Peyton and Brady. His rating on the road/outside of the dome is 90.2, compared to being 100.5 at home. Pretty big difference there. Factor in the fact that he gets to play in a dome and a game in usually ideal situations twice a year on the road, and that looks a bit worse.

Brees is great. Will be in the hall of fame, probably first ballot. On par with Peyton or Brady in their primes, though? Definitely not.

ninjaboy002 wrote:
Shinobi-no-Kami wrote:
MVPs are a joke. Almost as big of a joke as pro-bowl votes at this point. I don't even know the last time the most valuable player in the league actually won the award.
2012

Appears you are correct, that one slipped my mind. He only won by 11 over Peyton, though. Over the past 10-15 years, the MVP has rarely gone to the proper player.
  Posted on September 10, 2014 00:30
Spirit_in_Black
Rank: admin

Forum Rank:
Say My Name

Posts: 3823
Joined on:
June 2, 2007
#20
@Shinobi:

While you're correct that no one intelligent bothered to truthfully state that championships is what makes Brady better, I wanted to meaningfully debunk those who thought it was 'accurate' to say that.

Anyways, yes, their playoff numbers are similar. Peyton's are still better though, so I don't see the point in even bringing that up because whether you like it or not they are better.

As for your insulting comment towards Brees, allow me to educate you and everyone else here who may be completely caught in the media's brain washing -- and I won't be replying to you further on this issue because you're flat out wrong Shinobi, one of the rare times that you are.

I went ahead and compiled all 3 quarterback's statistics through 2 situations -- Since Brady's last Superbowl and since Peyton's. (Since we already know their career stats). They go as follows:

Since Brady's Last Superbowl: (2004)

REGULAR SEASON

Tom Brady:

2966/4624 (68.0 completion)
35473 yards (7.7 YPA)
263 Touchdowns
82 Interceptions
99.0 Quarterback Rating

Peyton Manning

3090/4608 (67.1 completion)
35791 yards (7.8 YPA)
278 Touchdowns
99 Interceptions
101.5 Quarterback Rating

Drew Brees

3708/5532 (67.0 completion)
42642 yards (7.7 YPA)
310 Touchdowns
140 Interceptions
98.2 Quarterback Rating

PLAYOFFS

Tom Brady

400/646 (61.9% completion)
4473 yards (6.9 YPA)
32 Touchdowns
19 Interceptions
86.8 Quarterback Rating

Peyton Manning

401/616 (65.1% completion)
4417 yards (7.2 YPA)
23 Touchdowns
16 Interceptions
87.8 Quarterback Rating

Drew Brees
275/422 (65.2% completion)
3220 yards (7.6 YPA)
22 Touchdowns
5 Interceptions
100.6 Quarterback Rating

Since Peyton's Superbowl: (2006)

REGULAR SEASON

Tom Brady

2313/3578 (64.6 completion)
27834 yards (7.8 YPA)
213 Touchdowns
60 Interceptions
101.2 Quarterback Rating

Peyton Manning

2423/3598 yards (67.3 completion)
27647 (7.7 YPA)
219 Touchdowns
80 Interceptions
101.2 Quarterback Rating

Drew Brees

3029/4478 (67.6 completion)
34648 yards (7.7 YPA)
260 Touchdowns
116 Interceptions
99.3 Quarterback Rating

PLAYOFFS

Tom Brady

295/464 (63.6% completion)
3207 yards (6.9 YPA)
23 Touchdowns
17 Interceptions
85.1 Quarterback Rating

Peyton Manning

282/425 (66.4% completion)
3093 yards (7.2 YPA)
19 Touchdowns
10 Interceptions
92.8 Quarterback Rating

Drew Brees

228/341 (66.9% completion)
2623 yards (7.7 YPA)
19 Touchdowns
4 Interceptions
103.5 Quarterback Rating

Note: Brees has one extra season on these 2 as they both suffered a season ending injury.

As you can see, they are equal, for the most part, in the regular season while Brees is quite a bit ahead of both in the playoffs. Secondly, Peyton has gotten better with age while Brady has slightly regressed in the playoffs -- Peyton has better playoff numbers in both samples.

Mind you, this sample size ignores all but one of Brees' career in San Diego but in 2004 he had what you would call a Drew Brees like performance, of today -- just didn't throw it as much. You're absolutely ignorant to assume he wouldn't have turned into what he is today. Especially considering Phillip Rivers turned into what he is today as well, who had outstanding numbers up until 3 years ago when he regressed in his 4th quarter performances. Also, it's retarded to require a Quarterback to be elite with more than 1 offensive scheme. If they are elite in a specific scheme you don't change from it. It would be stupid to. Yet you think that makes Brady better than him because he ran a spread in 2011? (Yes, a spread; he's always done Erhardt-Perkins outside of 2011) Or Peyton because he's ran Erhardt-Perkins in Denver and Air Coryell in Indy? (Yes, I know all of this information to; you're 'teaching' me nothing, boy.)

Sigh, further nitpicking by you. Yes, lets completely forget the fact he was developing into an elite Quarterback in San Diego, which is an outdoor team. Let's be stupid too and say Peyton cannot win in cold weather either, because that's how stupid you're becoming. Looking for every possible thing to bring up to belittle Brees' accomplishments. Let's also ignore the fact he's played 5 playoff games on the road and has done extremely well in them, as you can see in the stats I've given above but clearly, what do I know right?

Yes, let's intelligently state that the NFC South, one of the most competitive divisions, if not the most competitive division, this decade, has inflated Brees' stats. (This is clear sarcasm.) That division has been influx for years, changing divisional crowns every season thus it's never terrible. Where as the AFC East has been flat out trash since .. what ... 2006?? When Pennington was the QB of the Jets? Bills and Dolphins haven't been an issue for years as well. In fact the Bills haven't even been a playoff team since 1999. The same thing can be said for Peyton when he was in the AFC South. Outside of a few seasons by the Titans the Jaguars and Texans were in general weak to average, at best. Oh, and guess what ... ? They are all warm weather teams too. Oh noes, must condemn Peyton too! You're so smart!!!!!!!!!

Again, the question should be Peyton vs. Brees.

Predictions since 2013

NFL Regular Season: 342 - 168 - 2 (Playoffs: 19 - 3) || MLB Playoffs: 12 - 6 || NBA Playoffs: 40 - 5
NHL Playoffs: 38 - 7

2013 Grand Slam Champion (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, NCAA Basketball/Football)
  Posted on September 10, 2014 00:38
-cs2saske-
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Chuunin

Posts: 391
Joined on:
June 23, 2011
#21
Tom Brady.:oh
  Posted on September 10, 2014 00:49
Shinobi-no-Kami
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 83
Joined on:
April 5, 2012
#22
You seem to be ignoring the point I made.

I said Brees had better numbers. I explained why I believe that to be the case.

I didn't say Brees has better numbers because of the division he plays in, I said he has better numbers because of WHERE(as in location) he plays. 9 dome games and 1 usually ideal condition game. I gave you his numbers on the road compared to at home, and there's a rather big difference. Still really good on the road, but not nearly as good as he is in a dome. That's the case in both the regular season and playoffs.

I made mention of Peyton Manning being a dome QB, too. Except, as I also stated in my post which I guess you missed, he's gone to Denver and PROVEN he can play at the same level outside of a dome. Brees has not done that. I also brought up San Diego, except the issue with San Diego is it's a ideal place to play as a QB, weather stays the same for the most part there.

Developing in to an elite QB in San Diego is a bit of a stretch. His final season in San Diego he threw 24 TDs to 15 INTs on a 7.2 ypa. Not awful numbers by any means, but signs of being elite? Eh, I doubt it.

You seem to have also ignored the fact that I broke down Brady's changes throughout the years in offense, as well as Peyton's change. You're looking at just "well, they used this offensive scheme, thus it's the same every year", when if you look in depth, it hasn't always been the same. It's changed drastically for Brady 3 times over the years. Changed a good deal once for Peyton.

And I don't blame Brees/Payton for sticking with it. It works. Great. However, truly elite players prove they can adapt and still dominate. Brees might be able to do that, but he's never proven it like Brady and Manning have. It's the same offense year after year. Not the case for Brady and Manning.

It seems you did little more than skim through my post, to be honest. I addressed pretty much every point you brought up in your post. And I far from insulted Brees. I said he was elite, and I said he's a hall of famer. However, he's not on the same tier as Brady and Manning. You're looking at bulk numbers to try and prove that he is when that simply doesn't cut it. Bulk numbers are just a piece of an extremely big puzzle in these discussions.
  Posted on September 10, 2014 00:57
Spirit_in_Black
Rank: admin

Forum Rank:
Say My Name

Posts: 3823
Joined on:
June 2, 2007
#23
Shinobi-no-Kami wrote:
And I far from insulted Brees. I said he was elite, and I said he's a hall of famer. However, he's not on the same tier as Brady and Manning. You're looking at bulk numbers to try and prove that he is when that simply doesn't cut it. Bulk numbers are just a piece of an extremely big puzzle in these discussions.
That's insulting because whether you like it or not, he is.

Oh, but what's the use? You're the guy who truly believes Big Ben is better than Russell WIlson so that should prove to everyone in this community how little you know about quarterbacks. Oh, and let me translate this for them too:

"You're looking at bulk numbers to try and prove that he is when that simply doesn't cut it. Bulk numbers are just a piece of an extremely big puzzle in these discussions."

You thoroughly owned me with great information and stats backing up Brees being in the same tier as Brady and Peyton. I only have small, minor things to throw at Brees to help bring him down but since I'm losing this I'll say that stats don't mean anything at all and stick with the trivial stuff that I said!!!!

There, I helped.

Predictions since 2013

NFL Regular Season: 342 - 168 - 2 (Playoffs: 19 - 3) || MLB Playoffs: 12 - 6 || NBA Playoffs: 40 - 5
NHL Playoffs: 38 - 7

2013 Grand Slam Champion (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, NCAA Basketball/Football)
  Posted on September 10, 2014 01:05
Shinobi-no-Kami
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 83
Joined on:
April 5, 2012
#24
Spirit_in_Black wrote:
Shinobi-no-Kami wrote:
And I far from insulted Brees. I said he was elite, and I said he's a hall of famer. However, he's not on the same tier as Brady and Manning. You're looking at bulk numbers to try and prove that he is when that simply doesn't cut it. Bulk numbers are just a piece of an extremely big puzzle in these discussions.
That's insulting because whether you like it or not, he is.

Oh, but what's the use? You're the guy who truly believes Big Ben is better than Russell WIlson so that should prove to everyone in this community how little you know about quarterbacks. Oh, and let me translate this for them too:

"You're looking at bulk numbers to try and prove that he is when that simply doesn't cut it. Bulk numbers are just a piece of an extremely big puzzle in these discussions."

You thoroughly owned me with great information and stats backing up Brees being in the same tier as Brady and Peyton. I only have small, minor things to throw at Brees to help bring him down but since I'm losing this I'll say that stats don't mean anything at all and stick with the trivial stuff that I said!!!!

There, I helped.

I rank Wilson right behind Ben. I don't really see how that's a big deal, it's not like Ben is garbage. He's been considered a borderline elite QB for 5-6 years now, right outside of of the elite 4. Wilson is better than Ben was at his age and has a much higher ceiling, and I imagine probably will surpass Ben this year. He's certainly on pace to. If you believe Wilson to already be better than Ben, I'm not going to argue it. I don't view that as some outrageous opinion. There's certainly a case to be made for it. It's not a big deal to me.

I used plenty of stats in my post. I pointed out Brees' rather drastic decline(which puts him below Brady and Peyton in pretty much every single statistic) when outside of the dome. Thoroughly owned you? Nah. Just posted my opinion and what I feel backs up my opinion.

If saying Brees isn't on their tier or whatever is an insult, I dunno what to say. There's only a handful of QBs to be on this "tier". Brees is on the one that is below it for me. If you told me I couldn't have Peyton or Brady and made me take Brees I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining. But hey, we've all got opinions. Not everyone is going to agree on everything.
  Posted on September 10, 2014 01:07
sharkninja
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 4868
Joined on:
June 3, 2007
#25
-cs2saske- wrote:
Tom Brady.:oh





Anyway,
They are both first-ballot hall of famers who have proven themselves in the NFL. They have both won the Super Bowl, an MVP, and went to many pro bowls. Their stats are both remarkable, They both are at the top of their position, sport, and career.

However fact is, Brady is declining awhile Manning is flourishing with the Broncos. It's an opinionated question however if it comes down to it. Manning is the greatest QB this generation has seen.
Tobei's retired.
  Posted on September 15, 2014 02:05
Sam
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Jounin

Posts: 1849
Joined on:
April 1, 2008
#26
Kobe is to Brady as Lebron is to Manning

That's all I gotta say

by faraz
  Posted on September 15, 2014 04:06
EvanGrant
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Daimyo

Posts: 5166
Joined on:
February 21, 2007
#27
I have to completely agree with SiB on everything he said. Brees, and especially Rodgers, are both extremely underrated when it comes to comparing them to Brady and Manning. And I honestly believe that if there's anyone who's going to legitimately compete with Peyton for best ever, it will be Aaron Rodgers. Brees would certainly be up there too, but unless Rodgers slows down (which there's no reason he should at this point) then he's easily going to be in the top 5 of all time, possibly even top 3. To say he's been amazing ever since his first start would be an understatement. There's a reason he has (so far) the best career QB rating in NFL history by almost 7 points. Granted, he just now turned 30 this year, so it's only natural his QB rating would be so high, and it's extremely likely it's going to drop as he gets older.

It certainly helps though that he's had someone like Brett Favre as a mentor his first few seasons.
  Posted on September 17, 2014 23:14
Shinobi-no-Kami
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 83
Joined on:
April 5, 2012
#28
If anything, Rodgers' rating should continue to rise as the years go by, assuming his physical abilities don't start declining. More and more rules being put in place to assist the passing game. But yes, Rodgers will go down as one of the greatest ever.
  Posted on November 20, 2017 08:39
qzz866
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Academy Student

Posts: 25
Joined on:
November 20, 2017
#29
true religion jeans
fitflops shoes
christian louboutin shoes
cheap ray bans
oakley sunglasses wholesale
eagles jerseys
gucci sito ufficiale
jordan shoes
air jordan 8
nike air max 90
ralph lauren uk
dolphins jerseys
cheap ray bans
uggs outlet
ray ban sunglasses outlet
colts jerseys
nike shoes
nfl jerseys wholesale
reebok shoes
nike store
fitflops sale clearance
fitflops sale clearance
ugg outlet
air max 90
kate spade outlet
oakley sunglasses
nike huarache
ralph lauren outlet
coach outlet store online
true religion outlet
ray ban sunglasses outlet
ralph lauren outlet
nike outlet
ray ban sunglasses
rolex replica
coach outlet
cheap oakley sunglasses
basketball shoes
oakley sunglasses
fitflops sale
uggs outlet
coach factory outlet
christian louboutin outlet
polo ralph lauren
ugg outlet
longchamp handbags
nike shoes
moncler jackets
coach outlet store online
steelers jerseys
coach outlet online
49ers jersey
green bay packers jerseys
oakley sunglasses
polo outlet
louboutin shoes
kate spade handbags
ravens jerseys
cheap jordans
ugg outlet
soccer shoes
cheap snapbacks
chiefs jersey
cheap jordans
uggs outlet
jordan shoes
hermes belts
redskins jerseys
coach outlet online
nike air max
vikings jerseys
cheap ray bans
arizona cardinals jerseys
christian louboutin sale
nike trainers shoes
hugo boss outlet
converse shoes
ugg outlet
new orleans saints jerseys
philadelphia eagles jerseys
christian louboutin outlet
patriots jerseys
los angeles lakers jerseys
titans jersey
armani exchange
cheap ray bans
fitflops sale clearance
nike shoes
pandora jewelry
new england patriots jerseys
chicago bears jerseys
new york giants jerseys
polo ralph lauren
michael kors outlet
michael kors handbags
ralph lauren outlet
boston celtics
cheap jordan shoes
cowboys jerseys
yeezy shoes
qzz
your2weak.
Admins online: 0 - Global moderators online: 0 - Moderators online: 0 - Members online: 1