My point of view towards Religion-Atheists debates

Users reading this topic: There are no members reading this topic.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:02

Lordpatt
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 180
Joined on:
September 15, 2011

Well, we are all the same people. We all think the same way, we were all raised the same way, we have all lived the same lives, we all have the same goals, we all have the same perception of right and wrong, we all love doing the same things and we all hate Sakura; therefore we should believe the exact same things. /sarcasm, although the Sakura bit has some truth into it.

This is something that I am trying to spread in the internet (along with other people), and since I have seen that this forums had had a couple of pretty violent debates, I thought that it could fit here.

My main point of view is that if someone is happy believing something and does not really affect you directly, then it is ok. If someone believes that a giant lobster created the world and is happy with that, good. You can spend hours and hours trying to convince that person that that theory makes no sense, but they will most likely just keep their point of view. Why? Because he or she was raised in one way, has lived his/her life in that way and enjoys believing that. Furthermore, since he/she has lived his/her entire life in a different way, his/her thought mechanism is different than yours. It is not better or worse, it is just different.

The problem comes when that person threads you that if you do not believe in the giant lobster, he/she will kill you. That is wrong because that person is first off claiming superiority over you, and also breaking what I said above: he/she does not allow you to believe in what you want to believe. Maybe the word "kill" is too harsh for many of you seen affected or identified with it, but how about "insulted" or "bullied"?

If someone does not agree with what you think, he/she is not better or worse than you. Therefore you should not insult him/her for what he/she believes. Calling a Christian/Atheist/GreatLobsterist stupid just shows intolerance and lack of respect.

I mean, if you believe something, amazing. If you believe I am going to hell for not believing that, amazing. But you don't have the right to yell at me that I am going to hell, because that would be offesnive to me. You can think whatever you want to think, but can't do whatever you want to do. Don't try to convince me either, because my way of thinking is different than yours. Not better, not worse, just different.

If you believe the Big Bang created the universe, amazing. But you don't have the right to yell at me that I am ignorant if I do not, because that has nothing to do with believe that or not. My way of thinking is different than yours. Not better, not worse, just different.

I guess I could make thousands of examples, but I think you got my point. I could blab about the WBC who offends people at funerals, the arrogant scientists who make fun of Christians all the time....

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them. They are happy believing that, no need to ruin the party by starting a fight. And I must remind you, this fights never have actual conclusions. People VERY rarely change their point of view, so just it let it be. We are different people, we should allow each other to believe in different things.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:05

TheBlackMage
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Jounin

Posts: 1561
Joined on:
February 1, 2010

If I came and told you, if you don't touch THIS DOOR or you would burn for all eternity, would you call me crazy?

What if I told your children there really was a boogymonster under their beds?

What would you say then?

Simi is the worlds worst person & Konan is the worlds best person!

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:06

kisame9116
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 5495
Joined on:
September 2, 2008

Let them argue i finally learned my lessons weeks ago that getting involved in those debates is stupid and a waste of time especially on the internet. Point proven two people already started a debate.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:07

Lordpatt
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 180
Joined on:
September 15, 2011

Well, those are different issues. The first one is directly affecting me. You are not allowing me to do something. I pretty much said that yellin at someone that they are going to hell is no good.

The second one is related to kid's education. If you are damaging the life kids, then the thing is muuuuuch more complex.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:08

-newhope-
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 5347
Joined on:
September 20, 2007

Lordpatt wrote:

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them.

This idea is God-like.

Why are you forcing me to believe in your God?

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:09

TheBlackMage
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Jounin

Posts: 1561
Joined on:
February 1, 2010

-newhope- wrote:

Lordpatt wrote:

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them.

This idea is God-like.

Why are you forcing me to believe in your God?

Because forcing you not believe in God would be so much different.

Simi is the worlds worst person & Konan is the worlds best person!

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:09

Lordpatt
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 180
Joined on:
September 15, 2011

I am not forcing you anything. The topic is my advice and recommendation, and my point of view. Maybe I should make that more clear.

EDIT: Kisame, good point. I won't reply to more answers. This was just my point of view towards all this. I am not planning to get in a debate here.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:12

spike7011
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Akatsuki

Posts: 9020
Joined on:
July 13, 2009

People will never be able to accept other peoples ideals and theories.

Spoiler

Athiesm ftw.

My youtube channel || || Kellin Quinn <3 || Sig by Homofenix || Enchanted Family ||

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:17

-newhope-
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 5347
Joined on:
September 20, 2007

TheBlackMage wrote:

-newhope- wrote:

Lordpatt wrote:

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them.

This idea is God-like.

Why are you forcing me to believe in your God?

Because forcing you not believe in God would be so much different.

It wouldn't. It'd be quite the same. In both cases someone else is telling me what values/beliefs to follow.

Lordpatt wrote:

I am not forcing you anything. The topic is my advice and recommendation, and my point of view. Maybe I should make that more clear

I know that, but I notice you are contradicting yourself.

Your topic starts out with the idea that religious people, or I guess, irreligious people too, should not tell each other what to think. Right?

Theists shouldn't be pissing off atheists by forcing their beliefs onto them or forcing them to practice religious rituals or other crap, and atheists shouldn't piss off theists by telling them their God/gods are bullshit and imaginary. That's what you're saying, right?

You're saying they should both respect each other. We, the human race, should not force anyone to do anything they don't want, right? We also shouldn't force them to believe anything they don't want, right?

But here you are telling me to follow that rule. You're telling me, "Believe what you want, but don't harass others with your beliefs."

That sounds awfully like you're creating a new God called "mutual respect of all human beings". Let's call him MRoaHB for short.

Even if you're not telling us to believe in Shiva, a Hindu god, or Jesus Christ, a Christian god, you're still trying to force us to believe in this mystical and divine God called "MRoaHB".

You're forcing your belief in a mystical rule that says we should all treat each other well and not harass each other with our religious beliefs onto us, and that's no different than any other God.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:19

TheBlackMage
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Jounin

Posts: 1561
Joined on:
February 1, 2010

#10

-newhope- wrote:

TheBlackMage wrote:

-newhope- wrote:

Lordpatt wrote:

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them.

This idea is God-like.

Why are you forcing me to believe in your God?

Because forcing you not believe in God would be so much different.

It wouldn't. It'd be quite the same. In both cases someone else is telling me what values/beliefs to follow.

Lordpatt wrote:

I am not forcing you anything. The topic is my advice and recommendation, and my point of view. Maybe I should make that more clear

I was just being sarcastic, because if you asked a average Christian making people believe in God isn't the same as an atheist making a Christian believe in God.

And all hail MRoaHB

Simi is the worlds worst person & Konan is the worlds best person!

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:22

-newhope-
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 5347
Joined on:
September 20, 2007

#11

TheBlackMage wrote:

-newhope- wrote:

TheBlackMage wrote:

-newhope- wrote:

Lordpatt wrote:

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them.

This idea is God-like.

Why are you forcing me to believe in your God?

Because forcing you not believe in God would be so much different.

It wouldn't. It'd be quite the same. In both cases someone else is telling me what values/beliefs to follow.

Lordpatt wrote:

I am not forcing you anything. The topic is my advice and recommendation, and my point of view. Maybe I should make that more clear

I was just being sarcastic, because if you asked a average Christian making people believe in God isn't the same as an atheist making a Christian believe in God.

And all hail MRoaHB

Well, shit, Train. You should make it more obvious to me. I assumed you were making a serious point, but I guess you're the same everywhere as you are on the SK. :/

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:23

TheBlackMage
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Jounin

Posts: 1561
Joined on:
February 1, 2010

#12

-newhope- wrote:

TheBlackMage wrote:

-newhope- wrote:

TheBlackMage wrote:

-newhope- wrote:

Lordpatt wrote:

Let people believe whatever they want to believe. You are not better or worse than them.

This idea is God-like.

Why are you forcing me to believe in your God?

Because forcing you not believe in God would be so much different.

It wouldn't. It'd be quite the same. In both cases someone else is telling me what values/beliefs to follow.

Lordpatt wrote:

I am not forcing you anything. The topic is my advice and recommendation, and my point of view. Maybe I should make that more clear

I was just being sarcastic, because if you asked a average Christian making people believe in God isn't the same as an atheist making a Christian believe in God.

And all hail MRoaHB

Well, shit, Train. You should make it more obvious to me. I assumed you were making a serious point, but I guess you're the same everywhere as you are on the SK. :/

I'm sorry mi amor.

Simi is the worlds worst person & Konan is the worlds best person!

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:27

Lordpatt
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Genin

Posts: 180
Joined on:
September 15, 2011

#13

"Believe what you want, but don't harass others with your beliefs."

Pretty much. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but do not damage the rest. That is what I believe it is right.

I am not forcing you to anything. If you want to continue fighting and insulting for no purpose, continue.

I have never heard of that new God. This is something that came from my logic. I believe that humans live in society, and such, should be able to accept each other's differences, nothing "mystical".

This is my personal belief, and I am aware that it may be wrong. I am also aware that it is subjective, but I won't insult you if you decide not to agree with me. I won't treat you badly or anything. This is just my point of view. Nothing else.

I guess you do hold a good point though. But the reality is that at some point all of our beliefs are "religions". I am not againts people talking to each other about it, I am againts people trying to convince people at all costs, or insulting them , or such.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:41

-newhope-
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 5347
Joined on:
September 20, 2007

#14

Lordpatt wrote:

I am not forcing you to anything.

Alright, maybe I used the wrong word. You're not "forcing" anyone to do anything, but you are making a suggestion to follow this, which in a sense proves that you hold a bias towards this idea. You believe in it. Why would you believe in something that you know is false though? You wouldn't. I know that you believe in this idea as being true, so naturally, you want us to believe in it too. You're not forcing us to do anything, but you do have an agenda. Anyone who wishes to speak about anything has an agenda and a goal for speaking and saying what they say.

Lordpatt wrote:

If you want to continue fighting and insulting for no purpose, continue.

I'm not fighting. I'm debating. I'm not insulting, I'm critiquing. I'll continue as you have asked.

Lordpatt wrote:

I have never heard of that new God. This is something that came from my logic. I believe that humans live in society, and such, should be able to accept each other's differences, nothing "mystical".

This does not come from logic. This idea you are talking about comes from emotion.

Also, this idea is mystical because it's some unnatural. In the natural order of things, there are inferior human beings and superior ones. There are, in every society, the have's and the have-not's. For you to suggest that we're all equal is silly and wishful thinking at best.

The idea that we are all equal is "mystical" in that you, along with many others who believe in it, hold it in very high esteem as though it was a universal idea. That no matter where you go, what century we are in history, or whatever you are doing, this idea will hold true (even if we sometimes stray away from it from time to time).

This "true for anytime and anywhere and whatever the case" quality you give this idea sounds like omnipotence and omnipresence. Something I believe Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, and other religious believers also afford to their deities.

Your idea of respecting everyone is a "God" and you are suggesting we believe in your God.

Pretty much any morality you can point to around the world is a God. Even the biggest atheist is a believer in God if he believes that all human beings are equal.

An atheist is only fooling himself if he thinks he's rejected God if he in the place of God makes up this story that "I don't believe in God, but I still treat ll people with respect." He's still believing in some "mystical, universal idea" that's no different than God.

Posted on January 29, 2013 04:48

kisame9116
Rank: member

Forum Rank:
Sannin

Posts: 5495
Joined on:
September 2, 2008

#15

You're wasting your time again he's clearly just putting his atheistic view over the real truth of the topic.

Anyway just to clarify some things not all arrogant scientists are atheists and being a certain "religion" or "nonreligion" doesn't clarify how one should act.

Blah blah human nature doesn't allow us to get along and one should not be shocked that it doesn't. Don't bother replying as I will not give a fuck. Just read or ignore it.

My point of view towards Religion-Atheists debates

My point of view towards Religion-Atheists debates

WHO'S ONLINE