Tsunade vs Kakashi - Page 4


 Topic: Tsunade vs Kakashi
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  Posted on May 29, 2011 04:41
Minato-Sempai
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#46
I believe you. There's no reason not to

I know about Omerotsu. Him and I have debated quite a bit on here. I personally would put KrapKicker above him in terms of debating ability, but besides that, I'd say he's probably second, tied with tupapi, if not a little behind at third. Either way, I've had some fun debates with him, but I wouldn't speak of him so highly as to make it sound like it's crazy that he's wrong about something. Yes, Orochimaru did say that. Later he got hit a couple of times. And didn't die. End of story. "Actions speak louder than words". He said it, but it was proven wrong. Yes, I can see the massive damage she makes, but as I said, on the ground and walls and whatnot, the damage is exaggerated. What matters is how it is in battle. And she hit Orochimaru multiple times, but he still seemed perfectly okay.

Yes, I know Tsunade has a brain. I'm not calling her stupid. But even Shukaku level intelligence ain't gonna help her land a hit on Kakashi when he's much faster and has the Sharingan. Like I said above, Tsunade took forever to land a hit on Orochimaru, and Kakashi's faster than Orochimaru AND has the Sharingan, which will show him Tsunade's moves ahead of time. Tsunade won't land a single hit on him. About Jiraiya, as I said above, actions speak louder than words. Until I see her prove she's good enough to take someone as powerful as Kakashi is, I'm sticking by what I say.

Okay, seriously, that's bogus. You have no proof whatsoever of that.

Plus, there's no way you can come up with a way that Tsunade would be able to avoid Kamui :)


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on May 29, 2011 13:04
gerronix11
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#47
I'm sorry if I speak too arrogantly, but did you even read my last reply? Probably not all, since the last bit is the point that you missed. Kabuto hit Tsunade with his chakra scapel which unable her to do monstrous damage, So in that case she can only land normal punches. Kakashi doen't have that ability so, he does't have the advantage and he can never stop Tsunade's monstrous strength. Kabuto that time has the advantage because he anlyzes Tsunade's weakness and he's just the best opponent to remove that advantage from her. And that is exactly why orochimaru didn't take so much damage. Anyway your missing the point again... You think that it doesn't make that much damage to anyone and it just damages the wall and ground so much...You already know that's wrong because I give you the proof and I can give you more proof if you want... And I will give you more points. As I mentioned, Tsunade is able to use a genjutsu which completely paralyzes an enemy. Apparently, Tsunade can also use the chakra scapel. Not just that, she can also use Important Body Points Disturbance which is like the Hyuuga's Juken but it only hit one chakra point. But still it makes the opponent unable to move in the way he/she wanted to. You can't say that genjutsus wont work on Kakashi because even though he got the mangekyou sharingan, he's still unable to prevent the tsukoyomi. Seriously Tsunade is a legendary Sannin, and I dont underestimate Kakashi.... It just that I think that he can never defeat Tsunade...
  Posted on May 30, 2011 04:41
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#48
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  Posted on May 31, 2011 05:27
Minato-Sempai
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#49
Yes, I did. It's obvious that I did, considering I responded to every point. You are right about Kabuto depleting Tsunade's strength. I thought you were speculating, but I reread it and you were right. But you are still ignoring the point that I've brought up every single time, which is that it doesn't really matter, because Tsunade would never land a hit on Kakashi. Even Kabuto outdid her in Taijutsu. Tsunade has never performed any genjutsu. And Ranshinshō is still useless if you can't hit your opponent with it. And even if she did somehow miraculously hit Kakashi with it, Kabuto figured it out almost immediately, and Kakashi is also highly analytical, so he would be able to figure it out rather quickly as well. But, I repeat, it doesn't really matter, since Tsunade can't hit him.

And, yeah, she's a Sannin. But really, that doesn't even mean much. It's not even a rank. It's a title that an enemy gave them. But even so, I don't think she deserves said title. She just happened to be on the same team as Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Those two are really the super beasts. She's just a good healer.


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on May 31, 2011 09:53
gerronix11
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#50
Minato-Sempai wrote:
Yes, I did. It's obvious that I did, considering I responded to every point. You are right about Kabuto depleting Tsunade's strength. I thought you were speculating, but I reread it and you were right. But you are still ignoring the point that I've brought up every single time, which is that it doesn't really matter, because Tsunade would never land a hit on Kakashi. Even Kabuto outdid her in Taijutsu. Tsunade has never performed any genjutsu. And Ranshinshō is still useless if you can't hit your opponent with it. And even if she did somehow miraculously hit Kakashi with it, Kabuto figured it out almost immediately, and Kakashi is also highly analytical, so he would be able to figure it out rather quickly as well. But, I repeat, it doesn't really matter, since Tsunade can't hit him.

And, yeah, she's a Sannin. But really, that doesn't even mean much. It's not even a rank. It's a title that an enemy gave them. But even so, I don't think she deserves said title. She just happened to be on the same team as Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Those two are really the super beasts. She's just a good healer.
Sannin might not be a rank, but Hokage is... Who said that she can't use any genjutus?? Well, open this link and you'll find out..--> http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu_Binding

Exactly.., Genjutsu + Taijutsu will beat Kakashi, she can certainly land a hit using genjutsu.. Kabuto didn't take a hit because before that happens.. He use the chakra scalpel..... Another thing is, it says on this page... http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Painful_Sky_Leg that if you get caught in the strike zone... it can already kill you...
  Posted on May 31, 2011 14:22
tupapi_the_best
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#51
Databook
Kakashi speed: 4.5
Tsunade: 3.5

Already Kakashi has speed advantage, combined with the speed demonstrated when he initiates Raikiri makes Tsunade unable to keep up. Kakashi can fight close,mid, and long range while Tsunade has only demonstrated to fight close range. Kakashi is no fool to fight against one of the hardest hitters of Naruto. HIs jutsus are more than enough to distance himself from Tsunade while damaging her. His Kamui can easily lock unto someone as slow as Tsunade and teleport her away. Let's not forget his Sharingan gives him the ability to see the movements of a person before they make it basically because of the Sharingan's ability to see quote from wiki
Wikia wrote:
to being able to track fast-moving objects before finally giving some amount of predictive capabilities to the user, allowing them to see the image of an attacker’s next move from the slightest muscle tension in their body and counter or dodge without any wasted movement.
So since Tsunade is all about taijutsu, the Sharingan can easily track her movements and Kakashi has the speed and reflexes to react and counterattack.

@MInato
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  Posted on May 31, 2011 15:41
gerronix11
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#52
As slow as tsunade?? What are you talking about? its 3.5 vs 4.5, not a lot of difference.. And as I said, she can also use genjutsu and ninjutsu, not just taijutsu... She can also summon Katsuyu.. You seriously think that Tsunade will just use her taijutsu moves?! Ofcourse she'll combine it with genjutsu in order to land a hit... That doesn't even need speed, because before Kakashi can even realize... He's already trap in a paralyzisation genjutsu from tsunade.. That gives Tsunade a chance to hit him...
  Posted on May 31, 2011 22:18
Minato-Sempai
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#53
Hokage is a title, not a rank. Kage-level is a rank. A rank which most people consider Kakashi a part of. And did you even look at your link? From your own link:
Appears In: Anime and Game
AKA non-canonical.

And yes, as slow as Tsunade. Is Tsunade as fast as Susano'o's arrows? No. Kamui was able to warp those away. And as I proved above, she cannot use genjutsu. Yeah, she can summon Katsuyu, but Katsuyu is a healing animal. Therefore, not very helpful in a fight.

@tupapi: Nah, you're second. :)


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on May 31, 2011 22:55
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#54
Ok this is my final answer.

Tsunade might be able to take Kakashi out with one punch, but the real question is, can Tsunade catch Kakashi. She is in her 50s, she not so fast. I don't think she can keep up with Kakashi.

Now don't get me wrong, Tsunade is a really beast ass healer, but she has not shown that many offensive skills. She really has no defense against Raikiri, nor the speed to continuously evade it, if she could even evade it the first time.Yeah Tsunade is strong as fuck, but she doesn't have the speed to back it up. You need more than just taijutsu strength to defeat Kakashi.

Tsunade taking out Kakashi with one punch is a possibility, but what is the possiblity of her being able to even land that punch on Kakashi with her speed. Kakashi has the sharingan people! And he could easily take some like Tsunade out with Kamui. She has no defense or comeback to Kamui.

Kakashi is faster, smarter, and he has WAAAY more offensive abilities than Tsunade. Tsunade can heal, but it would be hard to heal from an attack like Rakiri or Kamui right? While she's healing, if she is not killed from Rakiri or Kamui, Kakashi can just attack again.

Sure Tsunade can use Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, but here Genjutsu isn't that good. Her ninjutsu is mostly recovery ninjutsu.

Sorry people, but I gotta go with Kakashi on this one. I don't see how someone like Tsunade could do anything against Kamui. She doesn't even have projectile techniques to keep Kamui occupied.
  Posted on June 1, 2011 10:27
gerronix11
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#55
Even though the genjutsu she use is from anime, its still connected to the manga.. How? then tell me this... In the filler episodes-Bikochu arc they said that the 1st Tsuchikage were came from Kamizuru clan... So in the future (Manga) they cannot change that fact from anime.. if they have to show him, he must have been used bees as his jutsu. So Tsunade can use genjutsu.. Exactly how she can land a hit on Kakashi... And tell me this, during Kakashi's fight with the Hidan and Kakuzu, why didn't he use Kamui? Because its not as easy and she can always distract Kakashi when she's doing the Kamui to her, Say punch the ground so he cant concentrate. If he uses Kamui, he would lose his concentration because it needs a lot of chakra.. and that's gives Tsunade an opening, Tajutsu+Genjutsu can defeat Kakashi as I said in my last post. Its not always the battle of speed.. its also the battle of jutsus...
@Omerotsu
How can she evade Raikiri?
Well, punch the ground as hard and let see if Kakashi can go near her. He can run as fast but that doesn't make him win. Kakashi always have to go near Tsunade to attack her and that's one of the way that gives Tsunade an opening to attack him..
How can she evade Kamui?
Same thing, Punch the ground to distract Kakashi...
Healing jutsu is not useless in a battle, if she got a single scratch, it won't take her long to remove it but if Kakashi has.. It might even reduce his speed depending on the damage..
  Posted on June 1, 2011 16:19
tupapi_the_best
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#56
gerronix11 wrote:
As slow as tsunade?? What are you talking about? its 3.5 vs 4.5, not a lot of difference..
Considering how the scale is out of 5, I'd say that's a big difference.

And as I said, she can also use genjutsu and ninjutsu, not just taijutsu... She can also summon Katsuyu..
Nowhere in the manga does it show Tsunade using Genjutsu. If you're talking about the anime/video games then those don't count since they are canon. And she uses ninjutsu combined with her taijutsu to have the chakra enhanced punches that you have been describing along several other physical techniques. And as I told you, the Sharingan can pick up the slight muscle movements in a person and essinatly give the Sharingan user a future prediction that is 100% accurate on what will happen next. How do you expect Tsunade to land a hit when Kakashi can see where her punches will land? Katsuya is purely defense, it has no offence capabilites rendering it useless if Tsunade plans to use it to fight. Wanna spit acid? Kakashi uses headhunter technique to travel undeground

You seriously think that Tsunade will just use her taijutsu moves?! Ofcourse she'll combine it with genjutsu in order to land a hit... That doesn't even need speed, because before Kakashi can even realize... He's already trap in a paralyzisation genjutsu from tsunade.. That gives Tsunade a chance to hit him...
Tsunade has no genjutsu techniques shown in the manga as of right now so you can't say she has some technique she has never demonstrated. Kakashi is known to have copied 1000 techniques. I'll be damned if Kakashi doesn't know more than 1 genjutsu technique(He already has demonstrated to use one). So Kakashi can put Tsunade in a genjutsu easily also as you seem to forget.
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Someone wrote:
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^I live by this
"Illusions... or real illusions. Within the illusions hide real illusions... from the real illusions, the illusions are created. Within the truth hides the lie... within the lie hides the truth. That is the Mist."
-Mukuro Rokudo

Best Mind Rape quote ever. KHR <3
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  Posted on June 1, 2011 17:32
Minato-Sempai
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#57
gerronix11 wrote:
Even though the genjutsu she use is from anime, its still connected to the manga.. How? then tell me this... In the filler episodes-Bikochu arc they said that the 1st Tsuchikage were came from Kamizuru clan... So in the future (Manga) they cannot change that fact from anime.. if they have to show him, he must have been used bees as his jutsu. So Tsunade can use genjutsu.. Exactly how she can land a hit on Kakashi... And tell me this, during Kakashi's fight with the Hidan and Kakuzu, why didn't he use Kamui? Because its not as easy and she can always distract Kakashi when she's doing the Kamui to her, Say punch the ground so he cant concentrate. If he uses Kamui, he would lose his concentration because it needs a lot of chakra.. and that's gives Tsunade an opening, Tajutsu+Genjutsu can defeat Kakashi as I said in my last post. Its not always the battle of speed.. its also the battle of jutsus...
@Omerotsu
How can she evade Raikiri?
Well, punch the ground as hard and let see if Kakashi can go near her. He can run as fast but that doesn't make him win. Kakashi always have to go near Tsunade to attack her and that's one of the way that gives Tsunade an opening to attack him..
How can she evade Kamui?
Same thing, Punch the ground to distract Kakashi...
Healing jutsu is not useless in a battle, if she got a single scratch, it won't take her long to remove it but if Kakashi has.. It might even reduce his speed depending on the damage..

1st of all, who is they? The manga is written by one person, Kishimoto Masashi. And yes, he can chance whatever he wants from the anime. Because the anime is not canon. The manga is. If he changes it, then what he had is canonical, not what the anime said. So, as of now, we know absolutely nothing of the 1st Tsuchikage.

Kakashi didn't use Kamui against Hidan and Kakuzu because he still hadn't mastered it and it was still very taxing on him. But that was then. Recently he used it against Susano'o's arrows, and then continued fighting. Tsunade cannot punch the ground and distract Kakashi in a shorter amount of time than it would take for Susano'o's arrows to travel a very small distance. So if Kakashi uses Kamui, Tsunade's done. And as I proved above, she cannot use genjutsu.

That is not a way to evade Raikiri. Kakashi just jumps over the the wreckage and still attacks her. And no, Kakashi does not have to get close to her to attack. He has long range attacks like Raijū Hashiri no Jutsu and Daibakufu no Jutsu. Plus, how is she to evade Raikiri if Kakashi traps her with the ninja dogs first?

Again, that's not a way to evade Kamui. I proved that above. And still, Kakashi has the option to trap her with the ninja dogs first to combo it with Kamui.

And a single scratch slow down Kakashi? Are you serious? In the ninja war he got sliced deeply the whole way across his stomach, and he still kept fighting top-level ninja. It will take a piss ton more than a single scratch to slow down Kakashi.


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on June 2, 2011 01:13
gerronix11
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#58
I've never seen anything from the anime that proves wrong by the manga. Ofc, Kishimoto is keeping his eye on the anime so he won't make a mistake...

I'm sure he can use the Kamui ages ago, since he use it against Deidara during Gaara's arc and he got Deidara's arm.. He can fullly do it on objects but not fully on people.. He did it on susanoo's arrows because its only going down on one direction... if he use it on people, they couldn't caught them that easy because the person will decide where to run.. It can only be used with 90% hit rate to injured people or people that can't move/paralyzed.. If He can do it to people easily, then why didn't he do it on deva path??? He just did it to objects... Its because Kamui needs a lot of concentration that waste a lot of chakra... He can't afford to use it in battle then missed...

Punching a ground is a way ofcourse... It makes cloud of smoke because of the dust and if that happens, Tsunade will punch him.. Don't forget that Tsunade also makes poisons which she can use to poison Kakashi and make her unable to move... Daibakufu no Jutsu can be easily dodge and its not so offensive... Its just water... and who said that there will be water in the battlefield?? Raijū Hashiri no Jutsu also spends a lot of chakra, Tsunade can always dodge it and everytime Kakashi missed.. He'll just run out of chakra everytime...

Combo with Nin-dogs?? Then Nin-dogs will be trapped in the jutsu as well then.. And as if thats gonna happen... Tsunade have Katsuyu.. She don't just fight by herself.. She can summon a giant Katsuyu and ride on it... That way, He can get Kakashi by spitting acids at all ranged... If Kakashi hid underground, Tsunade will still have the advantage cause once Kakashi popped out, He'll be neutralized.. With Tsunade at the back of Katsuyu, she will be super safe there.. And she'll notice if Kakashi's going up.. Nin-dogs won't help him either.. They'lle be also neutralized... Katsuyu is one of the top 3 summons, otheres were Manda and Gambunta.. They were all big and hard to beat down.. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the 3 of them got the title of Sannin..

Maybe not single scratch but maybe a bit more pain than that..
  Posted on June 2, 2011 04:52
Minato-Sempai
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#59
The anime had the wrong Hokage use Kokuangyo no Jutsu. And they had Orochimaru summoning Minato before Sarutobi stopped him, and then it turns out later that it's impossible to summon Minato.

I'm not saying he couldn't use it. I'm saying it was too risky back then because he hadn't mastered it. Now he can use it ridiculously fast and has better aim. Susano'o's arrows were too fast for Danzo to dodge, and too fast for Kakashi to dodge. They're ridiculously fast. Yet Kakashi still managed to use Kamui in time. So Tsunade would not have time to do anything. Kamui is too fast for her.

So a cloud of dust is going to make it where Kakashi can't see Tsunade to use Raikiri but Tsunade can see Kakashi just fine to punch him. Incorrect. Tsunade has no chance to dodge Raikiri. And I wasn't saying there was water on the battlefield. I was just proving that Kakashi has long range ninjutsu. Raijū Hashiri no Jutsu doesn't really expend too much chakra. Kakashi was able to use it and various other techniques before running out of chakra. And Tsunade can't dodge it. Kakashi controls its path, so if she just dodges it, Kakashi can turn it around and still hit her.

Yes, combo with nin-dogs. What jutsu will they be caught in? Katsuyu spitting acid is not going to get Kakashi. He can dodge it, or use Doryūheki, or use Moguragakure no Jutsu. And Tsunade does not have the advantage if Kakashi goes underground, because she will have no idea where he will pop up from. So that's just a way he can sneak attack her with Raikiri. Where on earth did you get the idea that the 3 sannin's summonings are the top 3 summonings? And there aren't multiple reasons that they got the title of Sannin. We know why they got the title of Sannin. It's because Hanzō gave it to them after they battled.

A bit more pain than that? I'd say halfway getting cut in half is a heck of a lot more pain than that, and that still didn't slow Kakashi down.


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on June 2, 2011 07:33
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#60
I'd throw out the idea of the Raikiri... Sure... its strong... and pierces pretty much everything... but once it hits its target it only completely destroys it if its strong enough to stop the force of it... which a human isnt...

Basicly what im saying is a Raikiri would impale Tsunade...

Which in a contest where speed is not in your favor, but strength is, thats might be exactly what you are looking for... Tsunade has shown she can take a hit... even being impaled... If Kakashi went to close range and impaled her, without removing the heart, or brain... or something causing instant death (cause lets face it Tsunade clearly shows a Lack of dying to anything short of that)... Kakashi would be stuck at literaly point blank range... where Tsuande would... smash... and easily be able to heal afterwords... This is assuming he hits her

For Kakashi to win he would need to use his speed to keep distance, not hit and run...

When Tsunade smashs, it takes down the area around her... even with slower speeds... Tsunade isnt stupid, she knows she can account for his speed by attacking the ground... its not that hard against a completely linear attack like the Raikiri... By hitting the ground early she almost guarantees a hit... either as he is leaving to dodge, or as he is entering... even worse, for the Raikiri, its almost impossible to stop the damn thing once you committed to it...

Minato-Sempai wrote:
So a cloud of dust is going to make it where Kakashi can't see Tsunade to use Raikiri but Tsunade can see Kakashi just fine to punch him.

Yes... its not the damn dust thats gonna screw him up... its the fact the floor is no longer in the ground, and in his face, not only slowing down the attack... but reducing the power... as for why Tsunade would be able to hit him... well seriously... think about it... Kakashi has a becon in his right hand sparkling very clearly... its like a big neon sign saying "hey! im right here"

and leave the nin dogs out of this... if you have the balls to stand next to tsuande to hold her down... good luck to ya chief... she'll have a new fur jacket by sun down...

and yes... going under ground is a bad move for Kakashi... Tsunade makes the earth her bitch... if FRICKING SAKURA... can go... "hmm... he aint right or left... and he aint flying... he must be under ground" in only a few seconds and completely turn the earth upside down in a single punch... I shutter to think what would happen with Tsunade tried it...


Anyone else ever wonder exactly how many rare candies Naruto feed his Vulpix to get a Ninetails that goddamn big?...

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