Pearz's Chakra distribution Guide (Chakra God Approved :O) - Page 15


 Topic: Pearz's Chakra distribution Guide (Chakra God Approved :O)
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Poll: What do you think?
467 vote(s) since September 6, 2007 22:21
Makes my head hurt :S (156) (33%)
Realli Helpful (100) (21%)
Okay i gues (61) (13%)
Useless (51) (11%)
Zomg its Pearz :O (99) (21%)
  Posted on August 15, 2008 18:18
Pearz
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#211
bleh im a nub double psoter

Sig made by Linkhero thanks
  Posted on August 15, 2008 18:19
Pearz
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#212
Quote by Soltis
That's a wonderful metaphor for explaining multiple instances occurring at the same time... except that we're not pulling the entire combination out of thin air all at once.
The game is not randomly generating all three results at the same time, it's generating them one at a time. One at a time. One at a time, one per draw. Generate, add. Generate, add. Generate, add.
Your "bag" in this case now contains four stones and we draw three times. Their formation afterwards is completely negligible.
Now, my chance of getting the same ones twice in a row? Not as good. Why? The chance of my getting something ELSE is what modifies this. That's IT. This is seen how? This is seen that the chance of my getting it- 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc. changes with the /amount of stones in the bag/. The amount of stones in the bag is also expressed as the chance of getting something else.

There are only four possible results for the 1 in 4 draw. A, B, C, or D.
However:
Your expressions are correct if the game is generating the chances in exactly what you have described, a solid list. If the game is doing that then yes, the chances of getting each combination are how you describe using the 64 bag method.

If the game is generating them one at a time as I'm saying than each draw is treated individually as a 1 in four chance and there's no distinction between X and Y where X is what you get on the first draw and Y is the other types because as I said before- dice have no memory, and your chance of getting the same one twice in a row is the same as getting a different one on the second draw. There is no distinction between X and Y when you hit draw two because the random generation has no modifier on it to do so.

If I put the 4 chakra stones in the bag, and take one out, what was my chance of getting that color? 1 in 4. Let's say I picked up red.
I put the red back and shake the bag up. There are now two outcomes.
I draw and don't get a red one. I get another color. What was my chance of getting that color? 1 in 4.
I draw and I get the red again. What was my chance of getting that color? 1 in 4.


We won't solve this argument unless we can be sure of the game's random generation mechanic.



since somone insists they are correct lets simplify this example:
Compare 2 red draw to 1 nin 1 tai draw, and say we only draw twice instead of 3 times

the FIRST draw is wher the odds are increased
When you want 2 red, you MUST draw taht 1 red on your first draw

However for a nin and tai draw:
you could First draw a nin OR TAI increaseing your odds if drawing what you want on your first draw


and for both cases the second draw would require 1 specfic thing so bleh?


So in essence the tai nin draw is higher chance because the chacne of drawing what you want on the first draw is higher.

Sig made by Linkhero thanks
  Posted on August 15, 2008 21:45
Soltis
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#213
Well.
The only reason this is defying conventional logic in the "one in four" system is because when you attempt a varied draw like that you're changing your chance to a 1 in 2.

For 1 draw of ABC or D, and I only want A, it's a 1 in 4.
For 1 draw of ABC or D, and I want either A or B, it's a 1 in 2.

For 2 draws of ABC or D, and I want an A and an A, my chance is 1/4 into 1/4.
Possible solutions are:
A on draw 1, A on draw 2.

For 2 draws of ABC or D, and I want an A and a B, my chance is 1/2 into 1/4.
Possible solutions are:
A on draw 1, B on draw 2.
B on draw 1, A on draw 2.

What I said before about far reaching probability still applies when you look at the big picture: I.E. Over the entire game. Over the entire game, you will usually see an even spread of chakra.
(For 16 draws, this is most likely.
4 Tai, 4 Nin, 4 Blood, 4 Gen.)

However, your probability of "mixed results occur more" counts when you isolate a draw from the rest of the game/picture.
(For 2 draws, Tai/Nin is more likely than Tai/Tai.)

The longer the game goes on, the more even of a spread you'll see. For one short burst however, for just one draw, that probability is what occurs.

So technically, your probability numbers should decrease as the game goes on right? It doesn't matter that your chance of getting Nin/Tai is whatever on turn 12 because if during the entire game you've gotten more Nin than Tai in a large amount, that's going to throw the count off.

Now, if we take this and link every game and every draw you've made together, doesn't it continue influencing your later games?
  Posted on August 16, 2008 06:11
ACommonHero
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#214
Quote by Soltis
Well.
The only reason this is defying conventional logic in the "one in four" system is because when you attempt a varied draw like that you're changing your chance to a 1 in 2.

For 1 draw of ABC or D, and I only want A, it's a 1 in 4.
For 1 draw of ABC or D, and I want either A or B, it's a 1 in 2.

For 2 draws of ABC or D, and I want an A and an A, my chance is 1/4 into 1/4.
Possible solutions are:
A on draw 1, A on draw 2.

For 2 draws of ABC or D, and I want an A and a B, my chance is 1/2 into 1/4.
Possible solutions are:
A on draw 1, B on draw 2.
B on draw 1, A on draw 2.

What I said before about far reaching probability still applies when you look at the big picture: I.E. Over the entire game. Over the entire game, you will usually see an even spread of chakra.
(For 16 draws, this is most likely.
4 Tai, 4 Nin, 4 Blood, 4 Gen.)

However, your probability of "mixed results occur more" counts when you isolate a draw from the rest of the game/picture.
(For 2 draws, Tai/Nin is more likely than Tai/Tai.)

The longer the game goes on, the more even of a spread you'll see. For one short burst however, for just one draw, that probability is what occurs.

So technically, your probability numbers should decrease as the game goes on right? It doesn't matter that your chance of getting Nin/Tai is whatever on turn 12 because if during the entire game you've gotten more Nin than Tai in a large amount, that's going to throw the count off.

Now, if we take this and link every game and every draw you've made together, doesn't it continue influencing your later games?


This guide does not claim to be able to plot out an entire game, but merely shows the incidence of a single turn. However, it should also be noted that it does not matter how many nin/tai you get during the game. The amount of "tries" each turn gives you to get a certain chakra does not change based on the amounts of different chakra you have, nor does the amount of that chakra available for you to gain (in a sense, if you had infinite turns, you'd have infinite chakra at the end, and as such chakra is infinite in terms used to calculate probability. There is always the same amount in "the bag" each time.)

So on any one turn, the odds of you drawing the chakra you need, is always the same. To look at more than one turn, you'd have to make combinations of "Randoms" (defining such as the amount of chakra you will gain, regardless of type). A combination of randoms would work as such:

On two turns, you have three living characters each turn. You will gain 6 chakra overall (regardless of how much you use up for moves, you gained that much). At this point, we would make combinations of six, rather than three, and find the odds of getting certain amounts from the six.

This guide never did this!

Therefore, the guide never attempted to calculate the long term, merely the short term. If you desperately need two nin next turn this guide will tell you the odds. If you desire two nin by, say the third turn, you're shit out of luck.

Which gives me an idea... maybe we should try that idea. It would solve my problem from before. No one else wants to, I assume, so I'll do it. I'll be in touch.
  Posted on August 16, 2008 06:36
ACommonHero
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#215
Sorry for the double post. That atempt is going to take several days, most likely. Be patient .
  Posted on August 17, 2008 02:25
Soltis
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#216
Glad to see I've stimulated some more growth in the guide. I'm mentally implementing the idea of influence in my games now- I'm using those percents to plan actual teams (Sadly, Kabuto is now no longer as awesome as he used to be in my eyes) and I''m using the idea of say "If I've got more Tai/Nin than Blood/Gen these last 4 turns I'll try for the blood/gen maneuvers/combos" mid-game now.
  Posted on August 17, 2008 21:21
ACommonHero
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#217
Quote by Soltis
Glad to see I've stimulated some more growth in the guide. I'm mentally implementing the idea of influence in my games now- I'm using those percents to plan actual teams (Sadly, Kabuto is now no longer as awesome as he used to be in my eyes) and I''m using the idea of say "If I've got more Tai/Nin than Blood/Gen these last 4 turns I'll try for the blood/gen maneuvers/combos" mid-game now.


Good to hear! But don't try to use this guide to plan teams really. Except for rough stimates. These only show what is likely to happen in one turn, which makes long term planing tricky.
  Posted on August 18, 2008 01:55
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#218
Quote by ACommonHero
Quote by Soltis
Glad to see I've stimulated some more growth in the guide. I'm mentally implementing the idea of influence in my games now- I'm using those percents to plan actual teams (Sadly, Kabuto is now no longer as awesome as he used to be in my eyes) and I''m using the idea of say "If I've got more Tai/Nin than Blood/Gen these last 4 turns I'll try for the blood/gen maneuvers/combos" mid-game now.


Good to hear! But don't try to use this guide to plan teams really. Except for rough stimates. These only show what is likely to happen in one turn, which makes long term planing tricky.

better not to use it..
:::SS:::
+33Streak
  Posted on August 21, 2008 10:27
ACommonHero
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#219
Not done with the second guide (for long term probability). It's coming along though. I just want to point out something this guide lacks. We do not yet have probabilities of how likely it is to get one combination of chakra (i.e. 1 nin, two tai, ect.) or a different one. I find there to be many times in the middle of a battle where multiple options are in front of me in the next turn, and I want to know how likely it would be for any one of them to happen. I used the combinations on the second post, and came up with this. So then, I suggest editing this into the front page:

Either one chakra or another: 56/64=87.5%

Two chakra or another one chakra: 44/64=68.75%

Two chakra or two other different specific chakra (Nin+Tai, Gen+Blood, ect.): 26/64=40.625%

Two chakra or two different chakra: 19/64=29.6875%

Three chakra or one different chakra: 38/64=59.375%

Three chakra or two different specific chakra (Nin+Tai, ect.): 19/64=29.6875%

Three chakra or two different chakra: 11/64=17.1874%

Three chakra or three different chakra: 2/64=3.125%
  Posted on August 21, 2008 20:21
ACommonHero
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#220
Sorry, I missed a few. I was typing that at 2 A.M. though, so mistakes like that were made. I'll edit the ones I missed in.

Tell me if I missed any others .
  Posted on August 23, 2008 02:33
Soltis
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#221
Ok, someone that was keeping up with the character changes will have to tell me if my mind is deceiving me or not.

Did they really boost Kakashi(S) by changing his attack maneuver from Red/Red to Red/White? If so, wow. Ya'll are making an impact.

If not, please disregard.
  Posted on August 23, 2008 03:07
ACommonHero
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#222
Quote by Soltis
Ok, someone that was keeping up with the character changes will have to tell me if my mind is deceiving me or not.

Did they really boost Kakashi(S) by changing his attack maneuver from Red/Red to Red/White? If so, wow. Ya'll are making an impact.

If not, please disregard.


It's definitly a boost. You're almost twice as likely to get the chakra you need on any one turn.
  Posted on August 27, 2008 19:35
phelipecurty
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#223
i too agree nice !!!!!!!


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  Posted on September 9, 2008 02:03
anbu360
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#224
Lol i dont under stand...Looks cool though..lol



Kage Bushino Jutsu!
  Posted on September 9, 2008 22:35
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#225
Shows that you have done the best