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Posted on September 24, 2009 19:19

Igaryu
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#1021

The coding and also it could backfire greatly cause then it would really kinda make a spike possible unless you kill the guy or go invul.So maybe you would need to know what is coming at whom or something like that?

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Posted on September 24, 2009 19:21

FalcoVet101
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#1022

Seducer wrote:

kibahina4ever wrote:

you're comparing a char who is a bit underpowered to one that is overpowered.

Showing the big gap between two characters was exactly my intention.

By the way could someone give a link to the most recent winning rates?

I'll be honest,it was not smart to compare the characters (shino(s) and kank(s)) considering how different they are.

Kank(s) has a counter to use on an enemy which really is just a counter with a self improvement ability

Shino(s)'s is used on an ally (or himself) and deals damage and gains him a blood (so a random counter to do 20 damage if successful,and if not successful you know that character is not harmed)

Kank(s) is obviously more of a supportive character than Shino(s) is. Kank counters,provides AoE defense,and deals low damage for a small cost.

Shino(s) on the other hand is a self supporting tank/anti support character. He can make himself a tank with his CG,his IS can pretty much ruin any teams that rely on support (which most good teams do have),does piercing,has a pretty good counter and pays for himself.

YES,Shino(s) is a heavy blood user,but if you look at all of the blood users we have now,how many do we have that use low amounts of chakra?I think Oro(s),Nii (kinda),Shino (bug preps take a lot out of you though) and Shino(s) (im not sure if there are any others)

YES,there is sometimes a dis-advantage of being limited to 1 chakra type,but still he is one of the few low chakra blood users we have.

In my submission i had chakra gather a bloodline for balancing purposes. 50% reduction,the ability to do 30 piercing for 1 blood and along with that 30 piercing the ability to stp all friendly skills is quite powerful,too powerful for 1 random alone to do.

Again,most people know my inspiration for him:
semi-prep of hinata (chakra gather)
counter of ibd/zaku (insect barricade)
anti support like nidai but piercing like baki(insect swarm)

He's a hybrid. He's not a character like tenten(s) who relies on constant AoE or shizune who has minimal offensive abilities but great support,but a mix.

Final statement:
I know many of you will probably think "Oh,Falco,you are just saying all this because you submitted him" well that is not true. I am in favor of any change to any characters if balance is helped to be achieved. That includes my submissions. When i saw Aoba in the high tier i was all in favor of a nerf. But with Shino(s) in the 49% range i believe,i think he's fine. Afterall,the goal is to get characters as close to the 50% range as possible.

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Posted on September 24, 2009 19:22

Seducer
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#1023

Narikku wrote:

@Seducer- By what I meant as a chakra whore, is that he constantly swallows your chakra to be good. Much like Shizune and Kankuro (S), Shino (S) is constantly doing something to be sueful to the team. That's what makes him a Chakra whore IMO, not the amount of chakra he uses.

My experience tells me different story. Most of the time Shino sits on his buttom doing nothing cuz 15 piercing with ZOMG overcool effect is not really worth 1 chakra and it screams to your opponent that right now you are not countering.

Posted on September 24, 2009 19:22

kibahina4ever
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#1024

Gah, I keep forgetting to put that the skill is invible in the description.

Posted on September 24, 2009 19:22

SerbianKnight
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#1025

uzumaki_george wrote:

does anyone think kiba s is op? :weird

ignore's stuns, atack better then cursed chidor, his fait will be the same as cursed sasuke when he did 60 damgage

i dont think so

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Posted on September 24, 2009 19:35

kibahina4ever
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#1026

Thank you Falco! All this Shino S hate with me being the only one really defending him was starting to annoy me. Also, I would appreciate it if you gave me some feedback on my rework of Syrup Snare Field, I'm dying for good feedback her.

Posted on September 24, 2009 19:42

Seducer
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#1027

@FalcoVet101
Thank you for giving us Shino. No kidding. I like to use him very much and that is the reason why I bitch about him being UP.

And yet I cannot agree with what you say. If Shino was a tank he would be a paper tank with a water toy-gun. Sure, 50% is great against non-piercing damage but most characters would just wait till the defense is down and then beat the crap out of Shino while he cannot even stun them in return. And it takes 6(!!!!!!) blood and 6 turns for Shino to kill his opponent at full health provided that he neither can heal nor protect himself with DD. Gaara laughs his ass out.

Posted on September 24, 2009 19:49

FalcoVet101
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#1028

@kibahina:
No problem. Ive been busy lately with school and my uncle who keeps asking me to help him with stuff since he's sick right now,so i havent been here much.But i think my long post was enough of a bang for a return. :embarressed

Though Shino(s)'s chakra gather could last a turn longer.That might help him out a bit.

kibahina4ever wrote:

What do you mean? I'm not cocky I just have a large understanding of the game, especially when it comes to support class characters. On-topic: As an idea for I&K's syrup, how about it makes all melee skills be delayed by 1 turn. For example, Naruto uses Rasengan but it doesn't happen until the next turn. It might be hard to code. What do you guys think?

It probably could be coded to start.Afterall,S/A has delayed stun effects.

Though i dont see how delaying the inevitable would help their syrup.Afterall,the current already delays skills for 2 turns,but then they can just wait and unleash 1 devestating combo on you.

I personally could see all melee skills C/Ds being increased with syrup though.So its kinda like a delay,but it also gives you reassurance that the enemy can't do anything.

Another idea i have is this:

Each time giant shell mace is used,guided shell mace can be used 1 time.So if you use giant mace like 3 times and dont use guided,then you can use guided 3 times afterward.

This way it wouldnt really be relying on "OMG,should i use this skill next turn?or use regular mace" but instead go "oh,i can stack up my amount of times i can use it,so if i ever get chakra screwed i have a back up plan" though the damage of guided could be lowered to 10 or something since then people can stack up the amounts and keep doing 10 for no chakra.

I actually have a lot of personal rework ideas for I/K. Like during syrup giant mace will increase skill durations by 1 for 1-2 turns/guided will stun during syrup (which means we could also stay "true to the anime" when the guided mace came out of the ground and caught kakuzu in a surprise syrup hole attack)

Though in their current state,guided can't really be used during syrup since it'll end after their first turn of mace

edit @ seducer:
Yeah,6 blood to take out an opponent,but this is a TEAM GAME. Anyone who just plain uses 1 character to attack will lose no matter what.

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Posted on September 24, 2009 19:56

kibahina4ever
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#1029

@Falco: You brought out the first edition of my suggestion, my newest and a good deal better version is on the last post of last page. Gah, you get to have all the fun making LAP's while the longest I can post is not even a third of either of your posts. Damn you Sony*shakesfists*

Posted on September 24, 2009 20:06

caninobranco
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#1030

I've brought some ideas some pages ago to change I+K, but since then i've read alot of comments and more ideas come to my mind.

A) Make SF as falco understood it so it will also make the team immune to ranged physical, making the team immune to ALL physical plus chakra melle.

B)During SF GSM can be used, so this skill can either be used after CSM or during the duration of SF.

C) SF reworked or boosted:
C1) Invisibility to the skill.
C2) Instead of immunity the skill reduce the damage of melle skills the enemy uses and lasts one extra turn (can be invisible until the first enemy uses a melle skill).
C3) Total immunity for an extra cost or for 1 less turn(I dislike this idea but will put here anyway).
C4) Cooldown increase on enemy skills.
C5) Self tank abilities instead of team tanking, also boosting his other skills.
C6) Any very creative idea that I don't got, but you guys can have.

D) GSM used on the same target who took CSM on the last turn, gets an extra boost like taking of chakra, stunning or anything useful.

Posted on September 24, 2009 20:10

Seducer
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#1031

FalcoVet101 wrote:

edit @ seducer:
Yeah,6 blood to take out an opponent,but this is a TEAM GAME. Anyone who just plain uses 1 character to attack will lose no matter what.

It was not me who started talking about TANKS :rolleyes

The tank is a one-man team who can defend himself and kill by himself. Good examples are: Gaara, Neruto, Sasuke, Sakon, Chouji...

Shino(s) is not a tank at all. He is a support who can negate dangerous attacks protecting his allies during their attacks (Kakashi during Nin-Dogs or Ino during Change of Heart and others) and put a debuff on his enemies from time to time. The self-defense does not fit well into the supporting style.

Posted on September 24, 2009 20:14

FalcoVet101
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#1032

Seducer wrote:

FalcoVet101 wrote:

edit @ seducer:
Yeah,6 blood to take out an opponent,but this is a TEAM GAME. Anyone who just plain uses 1 character to attack will lose no matter what.

It was not me who started talking about TANKS :rolleyes

The tank is a one-man team who can defend himself and kill by himself. Good examples are: Gaara, Neruto, Sasuke, Sakon, Chouji...

Shino(s) is not a tank at all. He is a support who can negate dangerous attacks protecting his allies during their attacks (Kakashi during Nin-Dogs or Ino during Change of Heart and others) and put a debuff on his ene

mies from time to time. The self-defense does not fit well into the supporting style.

He is a supportive tank.Defends himself great but provides team support.

Most support characters are bent on helping their allies mostly,not themselves.While tanks are all about themselves.

Shino(s) is both.

@Kibahina:
Try typing on wii internet o.o Then right when you press post wii inbternet logs you off of N/B,so that 10 minutes it took for you to write a paragraph is gone...

And could you just re-post your suggestion then?lol.Im confused:sad

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Posted on September 24, 2009 20:14

Igaryu
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#1033

@ Falco
Agreed that Shino(S) is a very versatile character and I gotta say I like the idea behind him(credit to you;). But really the duration of Chakra Gather might solve the problem if improve by 1 or maybe even 2 turns;)

Further I like the stacking of guided shell allthough 15 damage would still be okay dont you think?. Also enabling syrup field to make a stun possible sounds a good idea or even the CD increase looks very nice. Allthough I have to admit I just unlocked them and havent played at all with these two;).

@ Nidaime
PRAISE NIDAIME he finally helped me unlock I/K imagine the situation Ino(S) and Nidaime left at low hp and with infinite affliction from Sasori against a low health Sakon with parasite on Nidaime. Now I used Water Assault (allmost for the first time;)on Sakon, knowing my Nidaime would die next round. That way he could neither heal himself after he had killed Nidaime nor kill my Ino(S) as she was still at 45. His HP fell to 27 with that last WA. SO the next round I could stun him with Ino(S) and kill him one round later with proxy.
First time WA really helped me out with its effect and that BIG TIME as I was really struggling with that I/K mission thanks to me not liking any of team 10 (S) too much;)

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Posted on September 24, 2009 20:14

r_starks
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#1034

Igaryu wrote:

@kibahina4ever
It's okay I forgive you;)

@r_starks
Sorry but that is somewhat rediculous any character in Naruto has gathered chakra either to run on water or trees or to start any powerfull jutsu so sorry but a big NO.

why is that ridicoulous, rock lee has that same chakra defect!

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Posted on September 24, 2009 20:14

bhavik
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#1035

Seducer wrote:

FalcoVet101 wrote:

edit @ seducer:
Yeah,6 blood to take out an opponent,but this is a TEAM GAME. Anyone who just plain uses 1 character to attack will lose no matter what.

It was not me who started talking about TANKS :rolleyes

True, supporters are meant to protect the tanks and not protect themselves, but Shino S is fine only his counter is too weak.

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