The 7th Altar - Page 104

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Posted on July 15, 2009 15:29

Hyuugaman
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#1546

Sky-Angel-Ryuken wrote:

FalcoVet101 wrote:

Hyuugaman wrote:

Falco did you see Luapman doesn't want to change Gaara? The character I personally know myself and at least 2 other people quit because of?

Link me to where you saw that...

Anyway,i honestly am half and half.My main reason for changing him would be just to stop Sakura,Ino,Gaara.But my other slight one would be to make him more versatile...

Though,if that team is nerfed,then his potential in Hybrid teams can possibly show...

Luap is a smart man.He knows whats best

You don't change a character just because of his use in one team. But I do agree with your second statement. I would like to see more versatility in him. I don't like the idea of a instantaneous killing character. Situations where it's Gaara vs someone else has always been my downfall. I have to keep stunning and hope for 2 ninjutsu chakras in a row, which very seldom happens.

What makes him the most stupid character, in my opinion, is that even if your character has 1 health, it doesn't matter in the least bit. Gaara CAN'T damage you. He can only kill you for major cost. Here I bring up my stacking rework again. Fixed.

And it could even be 2 stacks needed to kill. I don't care. Just do something keep him as ownage while killing that cheap teamset.

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Posted on July 15, 2009 15:31

Hyuugaman
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#1547

FalcoVet101 wrote:

Hyuugaman wrote:

Last Post

But why is his only arguments winrates and Gametester something-or-other. He doesn't play! How does he know?!?

Damnit! I seriously want to play this game again, but I'm sick of running into that wall! At Jinchuuriki level, no less! :cry

Well,what luap says is the truth.Yes,i would like that team to be taken down sooner or later,but eh...nothing i can say really...

Well, either way, I wish Luapman would have never posted or used winrates. He ignores the real game and its players. :suspicious

Spiff, shorten your post. It's spam. Thanks for the support, though.

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Posted on July 15, 2009 15:35

Spiff143
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#1548

BTW hyuugaman, I added you to my buddy list and the reason why is on one of your topics with P-A and all the characters, and my sig.

Please add me too. :cry

lol

srry 'bout the spam.

Pokemon Arena is going to awesome! Just you wait, it'll have 3 times as many members as N-A! I also respect all of the workers and wish to help in any way I can! I'm putting this in my sig not too advertise, but instead too make it known! I'm reaching out to other N-A members to help too, then this project can become even better! Everyone pitch in for a change, instead of spaming, flaming, trolling, being retards, and all that stuff you guys normally do, instead help the workers with some of the tough things they have to do! If you want it as bad as I do, I recommend that you help too!

Posted on July 15, 2009 15:56

Spiff143
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#1549

Oh wait... @hyuugaman: Did I already do what I was supposed to here? :huh

Posted on July 15, 2009 15:59

4SS4S1N
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#1550

Great work for Kakashi (s)

But too Bad for kakashi.......why??

- In the manga.....kakashi raikiri was instant killer with nindog
- nindog cost nin+random and raikiri cost tai+nin.....and that not instant killer.......it woulbe better used kakashi and iruka together than this skil and what about gaara or rock lee??....many people used this noob combination ex: gaara-zaku/ino-lee/sakura and they got best highstreak and omg....its too hard to used kakashi to do it too......gaara and lee have good defence too which better than kakashi sharingan that have cooldown 1 for 1 turn..............and i think kakashi will be pwn if meet people that used damage reduce team

I suggest............
- Bring back kakashi instan killer with nindog+raikiri......or
- raikiri become 55 damage ..........or
- Like kakashi now....but raikiri become piercing like Cursed Seal sasuke chidori....why? cause we know lightning element can cut anything...so raikiri must be piercing used nindog or not

Plz luapy...........edit for Kakashi............ :cry

(i am kakashi fan) :cool

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Posted on July 15, 2009 16:14

narutoxyz
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#1551

i disagree with the kakashi nerf:oh
plz Luapman put him back:push
atleast 120 dmg when hes affected by nin-dogs
or.. add 1 random to still make it instant:smile

Music is my Life ...

Posted on July 15, 2009 16:30

Squirrel_ZA
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#1552

Falco, please can you justify this great move from the amazing Laupman

Gai s
- damage to him doesnt stack per turn, so in theory to avoid his gates you have to hit him for over 61 damage minimum when he is on 61 life by 1 person. You cant stack any damage to deal a combo blow any more.
i.e. Kabuto, sakon, shizune classic from a year ago..
Gai s = 100life.
100 - 20 (kabuto) - 60 (sakon) - 22 (shizune) = -2 in normal turns.... but.....
100- 20 (kabuto) - 60 (sakon) - GATES - 22/4 (shizune) = 15 life and a monster to deal with.
100- 20 (kabuto) - 15 (shizune) - GATES - 60/4 (sakon) = 42 life and a monster to deal with.

next thing. Since you cant avoid gai s gates unless you stun him every turn till death or you hit him with gaara or lee or kank (the only large life hitters for 1 attack)
You are stuck with a 65 damage 2 chakra brute that will beat the crap out of a team by himself. WITH NO COOLDOWN
~~ Counter arguement
"yes, but thats why the game has piercers, remove damage reduction and afflictions"
~~~ Counter counter arguement
So we are forced to play these characters now are we? as any other beast 1 v 1 ... aka kyuubi, chiyo, sakura, demon brothers are rubbish against this God.
And even if we had these amazing piercers in the game. 20-25 damage is the normal for a pierce attack, this still means a good excess of 130 damage coming at you for the period it takes to kill his last 30 or so life. and even worse.... if you have afflictions 8-15 damage is normal ,. which means a good excess of 260 damage coming for you. lets see 260 damage over 8 chakra over a period of 4 turns surviving and panicing = umm you tell me. and thats with afflictions

Finally ~ any one fancy a character with 75% damage reduction, ignores stuns, hits for 65 PIERCING DAMAGE for only 2 chakra (1 tai and other) and for NO COOLDOWN. whats that you say? stupid? no thats just our admins making the game "balanced" lol.

Awaiting your reply falco with great anticipation.
This Gai s, play toy is becoming rediculous

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Posted on July 15, 2009 16:37

-viOlet-
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#1553

Kakashi's raikiri is weak, as in the manga Kakashi's raikiri kills opponent instantly.
Kakashi is the one who taught Sasuke the Lightning Edge (which Sasuke renamed to Chidori)
so i think to balance the nerfing, instead of just 100 damage, Kakashi should deserve 100 piercing damage with Nin Dogs

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Posted on July 15, 2009 16:48

Gaara_Mx
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#1554

Ok... If Kakashi was nerfed, It's Gaara's time... I guess :unsure

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Posted on July 15, 2009 16:50

ninjtsuuchiha
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#1555

Whoa...this grew 30 pages in a day......was going on and on looking for my last post
ok with most of the changes

taking on 2 charas now-

kankuro- luapman...i understood u wanted to play it safe with him.........though that 5 damage really wouldnt have hurt him...if it would(i really really doubt it)...we could always try this change
will this rework stop his abuse......no way
will this rework make him balanced....in terms of winrates yes
...but nothing the 5 dmg to black secret machine wouldnt do....and with all the combos out there....this doesnt even break one of them....so actually this doesnt count as the nerf he needed ...even if it does lower his percentages

this is a fact i picked up from s-b (not comparing....but giving credit to whoever said it)..........that when a chara has usage as high as 8% or more...then he must be playing 5-7% of his matches against another kankuro...so in that case...1 kankuro anyway has to lose...who otherwise would have won some more matches.
in that case kankuro's actual winrates may be 56%(now 54%)

gaara-
to start off with...luapman said no to a nerf...that pretty much clears it

gaara is ok...as it has been said all he can do is kill...it doesnt matter if target is at 1 hp or a 100....this is a major setback for him
the fact is- gaara stuns cuz that is his main move...he needs to kill
u cant tell a person using gaara- dont use desert coffin
this may seem faulty..but only because he is being abused...otherwise he could be seen as a gr8 offensive chara
i find his dr more bugging than his kill
if people look at him closely...he is a bit limited but not completely....he isnt the best of matches with aoe(as if we need another aoe) ...but he can go well with other non-nin support, chakra drain, other single target dmg dealers(like neji)...
i agree he is best with stunners..but he has other roles

and i am asking...why gaara...i find sakura the bugging one...she is the cheap stunner in the team(ino takes 2 ...which hinders chakra-hungry gaara)
and she is being used for the wrong reasons....does any1 consider her heal at all? not with nin-dependant gaara on the prowl..even her inner sakura is not used so much

and i also feel she is the easiest to deal with...gaara a slight change could kill him...he is tricky to balance as well...while sakura...we have had tons of small suggestions which may work

Spoiler

i also find it odd how ino always has the best winrates among the three

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Posted on July 15, 2009 17:26

Mitsunari
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#1556

Hyuugaman wrote:

FalcoVet101 wrote:

Hyuugaman wrote:

Well,what luap says is the truth.Yes,i would like that team to be taken down sooner or later,but eh...nothing i can say really...

Well, either way, I wish Luapman would have never posted or used winrates. He ignores the real game and its players. :suspicious

Spiff, shorten your post. It's spam. Thanks for the support, though.

But we can't just have speculation and experience balance characters. Experiences with that character reflects on their win percentages, when they win battles.
Honestly, there may not be people who know how to use characters right, but that's how you judge them after you face them. Thing is, you're smarter or more strategic than them. But for them to unlock certain characters being discussed about here, for them to use powerful characters effectively, it does take a bit of luck, strategy, and skill.
When a character wins a battle in Ladder more-or-less, above level 20 (if the battle lasts about 3-5 minutes), then their win is recorded. We can't just use common sense or speculation to balance a character. No, that would be wrong, and that would actually ruin the game itself.

If you take Haku, who has won about 50% of all of his matches, have you guys ever taken into consideration that Haku has this win percentage because teams used with Haku have been beaten by more skilled players than the person using the Haku team? His abilities, just by looking at him, make him seem strong. But his actual performance in-game show slightly otherwise.

It's not always about "oh, the opponent doesn't know how to use the team" or "oh, the opponent didn't do the right move". The fact that you'd think about these things makes you a more strategic player than your opponent, and you always get ideas on how to start beating the team you go against. If you lose, it's either because the other opponent is more skilled than you, or more strategic.

In Lee's case, once again, it's not just about him abusing Gates. It's about the people that face Lee, and get an idea of how to defeat him and the team he's used in.
Kakashi was more abusable than Lee or Gaara, since Kakashi uses less chakra, can counter sooo many moves, and he is a spiker at the same time.

I disagree on changing a character just to make him/her more versatile, as before you know it, and as some of you want him to be, he could be stronger than he is now, and would lead to more abuse of him. Not to mention, new abusable teams might arise if Gaara, Lee, Ino, Sakura, Haku, etc. received a rework of some kind.

Sorry if it seems I'm defending the win percentage statistics, but I too don't entirely rely on them. Yet besides "Experience (Which other players have, not just what you experience against an opponents team, which can be otherwise for many other players)", and Common Sense (This really shouldn't have to be used in this balance discussion, unless we are stating the obvious abilities of a specified character, but we can't say it's common sense that this character is underpowered/overpowered), what do we have left to use? All we basically have that's viable to use are the Win Percentages..

Giving out free Orochimaru wins. All I ask in return is a Yamato to fight against. :amused

Posted on July 15, 2009 17:31

Skylitmoon
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#1557

Squirrel_ZA wrote:

I'm sorry but who attacks gai until you are sure you can kill him anyways?Mid to late game you will have plenty of chakra for this purpose and seriously every team has at least 1 or 2 massive damage char.

At the start gai is practically has no purpose other then waiting for prep chakras....and if people decide to start attack early game with gai then all the better considering the wasted chakra......

Seriously the only time I think gai is truely a threat is when noobs decide to go massive aoe but if your going massive aoe then you shouldn't even complain about cheapness in the first place:rolleyes

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Posted on July 15, 2009 17:35

Kolsake
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#1558

Who said Massive AoE was cheap? You can say certain AoE teams are overused, but cheap just isn't the right word for it.

Posted on July 15, 2009 17:39

Pikachu
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#1559

Like i said before, Kakashi's Nin-dogs are merely boosting his damn Raikiri.
Nothing else.
With all these damn damage reductions at hand, Kakashi is useless!
Im quite aware that you're trying to "even out" all the characters but, Kakashi was fine the way he was.
Please change him back Luapman. :sad

Posted on July 15, 2009 17:42

Demon_Shinobi
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#1560

Pikachu wrote:

There's nothing wrong with his nerf. simply dont attack a person with damage red on... or attack him before he gets a chance to damage red... thats what the stun's for >.> geez

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