The Fresh, Shiny, New Altar. - Page 27

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Posted on August 29, 2008 22:19

hellkaiser
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#391

@wombad: well i was being a bit cranky but you still flamed me with those pathetic statement's i'm playing this game a long time fact one so i'm not a newbie
next up i'm 23 so i'm not a kid

and i'm posting the altar with decent stuff all the time just lately mission's have me driven insane i mean at the moment i've EVERY character including sasori

but the problem is using a puppet user on sannin is bad..... using kakashi and getting a whopping 8 in a row is ridiculous
you know how many people are still on that mission bearing in mind that he's not that great imho let's look at a few examples of why kakashi is luck based rather than skill

he's got a two part combo (excluding the slow naruto (S) combo with KB)
that alone is a nuisance as single stun hammers him the second he fires off those dogs
next up without naruto (S) it's a no damage 2 chakra stun using nin which has ALWAYS been overused in n-a for offence but small gripe

if you get lucky you can kill someone turn 2 if not then you have to keep hiding behind sharingan copy..... THIS is the skill that kill's him as raikiri is actually the useful spike move

first up it used to be a great move stopping aoe countering and reflecting the move ALL of it

now it being retroactive only counters to the user keeping kakashi alive but also meaning that less dmg output unless it's a good move you reflect still not much good to the team though and they're more what i'd rely on

next up pairing him with naruto (S) for the combo is incredibly slow and can be easily stopped even with sakura (S) to help keep them alive i'll try the team now and i'll be back in a while to see just how it play's but i've absolutely no faith in it

although look at kimmi deidara jiraiya who could of thought that clashy team would work lol

i have all characters and if they all go kablooyey i want them back straight away lol not doing everything again for any reason whatsoever 22/5/08
naruto arena the manga held back temporarily 06/05/08

Posted on August 30, 2008 00:06

narutoanbu41
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#392

i think sasori should get a boost. His affliction damage is little compared to before. I cannot seem to find any good teams or strategies. i dont think it is worth leveling up all the way to sannin to unlock him. From reading his skills he may seem powerful but once in battle it is hard to use him. If the battle goes bad and it is one on one and you have sasori , the chance is tht you are going to lose because of sasori's high chakra cost and long cooldowns. I speak from experience becuase it took me a week to level up to sannin and once i got him i won a few quick battles and i decided to reset my acccount because of all my characters. once i started started ladders i started to lose becuase of his cooldown and high chakra cost. i now use one of my older teams and this is working much better. i hope somebody considers boosting him . he is sasori of the red sand after all.

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Posted on August 30, 2008 00:13

isOhunteR
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#393

I will agree about a boost to Sasori or even a whole rework . He is useless if the opponent attack him last. I fought Sasori several times today and one in a pb. I attacked the others first and i left sasori for the end. Result ? In almost all battles with him i had all my chars alive or at least 2 . 2v1 = 90% chance to win.

If there isnt a boost usuable i think he needs a totall rework.

Kisame's sharks needs rework for me , not that they arent a good skill but u cant decide which to use the prison or sharks. Make em aoe or something and change the chackra usage of this move...

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Posted on August 30, 2008 00:25

FalcoVet101
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#394

Quote by isOhunteR

and that pb you said was me

yeah,i just got sasori,but i still wouldnt call him weak just yet (a small boost is in order though)i think he plays the roll of a supportive tank,if you know what i mean.He kills people slowly in the beginning,being a supporter,and at the end uses tank moves.if there should be any boost,it should be afflictions with his last moves (like 5 or 10 afflictions)but should have a time limit (like 3 turns)thats all i can think of without op him (and raise his temp health so its even:20,30,40)

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Posted on August 30, 2008 04:35

harakiri
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#395

@isOhunteR
that what makes kisame so interesting to use. but in battle it will become apparent which one u should be using. it all depends on the situation in the battle. i usually switch between the two every other turn. his shockwave is the only move that i would rarely use. the only time it is very effective is against drainers in which not only would it save some chakra it will also prevent them from continuously draining u. situational...i say yes.

to me sasori has become less interesting. the chances of him not being able to do anything in one turn is kind of a turnoff. but falcos assessment of sasori is dead on. the change of his battle capability is what makes him so good. not much else to say about him. oh and for those of u who dont know we finally have our first hokage. ancientplayer. so for those of u who wanted to be the first (myself included) your to late.

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Posted on August 30, 2008 05:17

hellkaiser
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#396

ok here's my opinion's of sasori

after using him for a while now i reckon

he's great in a affliction dmg team like really good if you can use him right yes he's slow as a snail but he speed's up later on his cooldown's should of course be variable being that if he need's a boost then the cd on his random attack should be removed but ONLY if it's really needed and in the extreme scenario mostly he won't need it

as for his moves

first up his temp hp is fine as it totally negates the cost of his being cursed sealed and prepping and allow's instant access to his tier two moves iron sand being the best aoe in the game imho if it hit's all then it's godly and he get's 25 dd to negate the loss of hp
MAGIC the problem is that his tier two moves are far superior to his tier 3 moves
50 dmg for two specific is not worth using 25 aoe one turn cd is acceptable for a random move but i'd prefer more aflliction with non infinite durations as that's what he's mostly about although in keeping with his style with sasori once you start paying into his moves at least one of their guy's is going down now i'm gonna use my team as an example using three characters and bearing in mind the first scenario is the most likely being random usage

as for the other moves

tail strike

solid addition to something like amaterasu or shizune's poison meaning that they will take all in all 20+15+15 all for three random +5 per round every turn after

without shizune 10+5+5+5 so pretty much a slow 25 dmg for two random nothing wrong with that

with itachi it becomes

23+18+18 this is where it get's nasty that's a lot of affliction and can be stacked with shizune again after for 28 per round for three rounds lot's of chakra and time but guarantee's someone's gonna get hurt bad

well deserves a cooldown on that simply for the potential

tier 2

arm trap again you've got shizune to thank for making this more powerful with shizzer
it's 20+20+20+10 = 70 without her it's 40 over 4 rounds not bad at all for two randoms

with itachi although unlikely due to chakra costs

23+23+23+23+13 etc if i just count out that many turn's which can be done "theorietically" that's a whopping 95 affliction and adding shizune once again afterwards if possible it becomes 33+33+33+23 and that's a kill in my book's provided they can't spike you to death

iron sand

my PERSONAL favourite

two specific to deal 20 aoe and then making that 30+ over the next few rounds is amazing in my book's and add's to that affliction damage that make's a team built around it great in my opinion although the cost is a bit cack however the nin is required to stop itachi sasori abuse stil my favourite of his moves for the sheer comboability of it all

tier 3 or in my eyes the last tier you ever wanna be on

100 muppets...i mean puppets

random version of iron sand and unoriginal at best don't really like it at all still powerful as a late aoe move not much to say just adding it in after iron sand mean's it's 30 aoe for two random which is ideal although it's all to do with situation really

fire-water

boring..unoriginal and the chakra goes to better uses than to a bland 50 spike move has it's uses but really need's a rework like less damage but character can't use replacements or something should have an effect on the game rather than being the most boring of his moveset it's cost is pointless too i'd rather late game mangekyou sharingan than bother with this

so there you have it besides tactically hit moves on him to bypass his tier two he's a great character and if anything need's to be done it's to his final tier skill's to make him more of a tech character

the temp hp might be a problem as well but remain's to be seen as some characters late game 1 on 1 are just dead in the water to him

also healing him should reset his moveset's to previous one's not remain on their tier as it promotes more abuse than anything with him

Posted on August 30, 2008 05:31

kibahina4ever
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#397

Meh since I doubt the next batch of Shippuden characters will come for awhile I'd like to bring up characters that were in need of change but weren't changed due to Luapman not wanting to double his work, which is understandable, but now that this batch is balanced, for the most part, they should be considered for change.

Kidoumaru:
1) Kyodaigumo’s absurd damage reduction
2) Spider Web’s lack of versatility
3) Kidoumaru’s overall lack of versatility

Oboro:
1) General issues with Haze Clones

Kin:
1) Unnecessary nerf that goes against the characters main strength.

Iruka:
1) Poor synergy with many characters

Kabuto:
1) His heal serves almost no real purpose

Baki:
1) Relatively little contribution to an ideal, diverse metagame

Kyuubi Naruto:
1) Too fragile
2) Rage and Chakra contribute relatively little to Kyuubi’s team

Shikamaru:
1) Low damage output
2) Can only focus on one target until interrupted
3) Lacks versatility
4) Little synergy between abilities

Rock Lee:
1) Gate Spam
2) Revamp’s purpose was unfulfilled (Lee is still a suicide character)
3) General neglect of Drunken Fist

Temari:
1) Lacks direction – a misguided jack-of-all-trades

Dosu:
1) Low preparation window

Zaku:
1) Awkward interaction between Air Cutter and Extreme Air Cutter

To be clear most of these analysis's are taken from Soryuju's wall on page 114 of Altar 4 though some are my own. For possible changes/move ideas for these characters click the following link

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Posted on August 30, 2008 07:51

zeke47
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#398

well an interesting thing you could do with zaku would be have his AoE cost 1blood 1 random dealing 25 to all, then his single target deals 20 damage to the target and increases the AoE damage on that charracter from that time on by an extra 10/15 or something along those lines, this could also be an idea for future character

everyone unlocked as of july 19 2008

Posted on August 30, 2008 09:13

hellkaiser
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#399

nah that would overpower tzt again meaning it would be easy for it to once again become even more overpowered

as for the problems stated by kibahina4ever

i agree with almost all of it in a way

except for orochi as with sasori he's pretty good

Posted on August 30, 2008 10:44

Luapman
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#400

Quote by Caibre

Kisame BD is a little too strong...how about a cool down for water prison and sharks?

Kisame Body Double (S) 39.25%
Matches Played: 1340 (0.34%)

Kisame while much higher than he was pre-rework is still very low.

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Posted on August 30, 2008 10:48

isOhunteR
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#401

@kibahina4ever

I dont agree with the most of your post.

Kn is a great charachter. Maybe not the healing but the rage and rasengan are fantastick. I use him in affliction teams fro only his rage...

Kin : For me is a great charachter. Supporter , half spiker , Preventer from invulnerability and dmg reduction , chackra stunner and overall a great charachter for me.
...
Kabutos heal needs a boost for sure though.

Shikamaru is very good as he is for me .
the others also

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Posted on August 30, 2008 10:52

jay-dog
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#402

i needed to ask, is kakashi (s)'s jutsu imitation able to copy counter attacks?

eg. say kakashi(s) uses jutsu imitation on gai, then gai uses counter punch. does kakashi(s) copy cp? because his descrition states

Quote by Jutsu Imitation

This skill affects one enemy this turn. If that character uses a non-unique skill that does not require another skill to be used it replaces this skill the following 4 turns

and gai's counter punch isnt unique, and it doesnt require another skill to be used, but every time i have tried to copy counter skills like gai's it hasnt worked... is this a glitch or is this meant to happen?

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Posted on August 30, 2008 11:32

hellkaiser
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#403

then if kisame is still low it's the fact his stun is the only really awesome move he has other than that he sit's there and basically is cannon fodder his dmg output is also extremely low
but where he fail's in reality is his speed so probably see a change in his chakra costs

Posted on August 30, 2008 11:43

kibahina4ever
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#404

Quote by isOhunteR

Shikamaru is very good when the main move he is used for is a cheap 2-turn team stun that while the opponent is in he can barely help his teammates do anything damage-wise? Also please don't tell me to base a team based around his good charactersistics because that would mean I'll be using a team thats method of winning is making it to where your opponent can't use any of his characters for so long that you pick them off

KN is a good character but his heal is less than adequate and his kyuubi rage is a bit less than examplary.

Kin's main strength relies on her being able to link her attacks. She was just fine before they made the cooldown on her drain to 2. Don't see why it was changed and it mostly ruins Kin since her best combos involve that move and the move isn't all that powerful to deserve a 2-round cooldown.

Kidomarou is just fine when he is both overpowered yet underpowered?

Meh if you read what most of the reasons that the characters needed change that I posted then you might understand why the character needs change.

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Posted on August 30, 2008 11:55

ilcane87
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#405

Sorry if i'm changing subject but I'm reporting a bug:

Kakashi(S)'s Jutsu Imitation doesn't copy Shizune's Poison Mist, although it's not unique, nor it requires a preparation.

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