The Fresh, Shiny, New Altar. - Page 22

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Posted on August 28, 2008 09:02

travman90
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#316

Quote by isOhunteR

I will insist on Tsunade being considered as Kage.

Seconded! Seriously, her description says that she is a kage. I've already finished that portion of the Sasori mission and I still feel that she should be a kage, at least for consistency's sake.

Also, on Itachi, he's fine the way he is. Cheap, effective in damage/stun. I mean with all these characters gaining damage reduction, destructible defense, we need cheap characters who can get through that. Hence, Itachi is a powerhouse in his own right. Plus 1 v. 1, he's nearly unbeatable. 13 damage a turn and then stun them for 3 turns. 13*3=39 damage that your opponent can't attack you for. Plus one invul to make it 52. Then Man. Sharingan can stall even longer. Before long you should have one your one on one.

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Posted on August 28, 2008 12:35

zeke47
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#317

well i know you've already changed kisame' s stun recently but now that i look at it it'd be really cool for his stun to be sumwhat like shikimaru's was before but then you realised that one on one it is unbeatable because of his permastunning, so i thought maby have it stun for 2 turns and do 10 affliction damage per round butit cancles if if he is damaged, then it'd be a very cheap 2 turn stun that is easily avoidable

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Posted on August 28, 2008 13:44

MastaCookie
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#318

Quote by travman90

Quote by isOhunteR

I will insist on Tsunade being considered as Kage.

Eum Yeah I do feel that she should be a Kage too but you must know that she wasn't Hokange yet when she battle against Orochimaru and the moveset she uses is from that battle. Sorry

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Posted on August 28, 2008 15:00

FalcoVet101
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#319

to all you people who say itachi is weak.....shame on you

please,hear me out:itachi is a support character.He is not meant to deal 50 dmg with 1 hit.He has one of the longest stuns in the game,which is very easy to pull off.He causes perma affliction,which does alot of dmg for its cost (sakon does 2 more dmg with double the cost)And dont say"sakon can heal,and he gets dmg reduction"well,itachi has 2 invul moves.So technically,itachi is practically another version of sakon,but sakon is a main,and itachi is a supporter.Each character serves their purpose.Dont hate itachi,just because you dont know how to use his purpose well.If anything,itachi is overpowered.able to do 13 undefendable perma affliction for just 1 measily nin.

Quote by travman90

Seconded! Seriously, her description says that she is a kage. I've already finished that portion of the Sasori mission and I still feel that she should be a kage, at least for consistency's sake.

thirded

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Posted on August 28, 2008 15:19

yodaz
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#320

So, zabuza's win % will probably be abnormally high after this last change. Reason for that is because hidden mist can now be used close to back to back so there can be a close to permanent counter to ranged physical attacks. Thus, using zabuza has an almost auto win effect against ranged physical teams or teams that rely heavily on that (just a guess but i'm going to say that's 30-40% of the teams if not more?). Then on top of that HMD/SHT actually makes sense now so he is useful against non ranged-physical teams as well. In other words, b/c of hidden mists duration and cooldown there is a close to lockdown/auto win effect and on top of that zabuza's skill set makes him fairly competitive against other teams as well. What i'm trying to say in this is that the "problem" with zabuza, or what is boosting his %'s to unreasonably high levels, is the ability to use HMT nearly back to back aka, the cooldowns probably a turn too low, and not that the damage is too high.

Posted on August 28, 2008 15:33

dawsoe20
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#321

I think Zabuza's Mist is a necessary evil though to counter ranged physical teams, as is Nidaime's every other turn counter to melee teams, and Kisame BD's counter to chakra teams, and Kakashi(S)'s counter to stun teams. These characters don't ensure wins against ALL teams, but rather give you a really good chance against the said counterable team in the rare chance you run into them. Chakra teams were about the only thing broken until Neji(S) and Kisame BD came out. Kankuro was and sometimes is getting alot of abuse on the ladder, but thanks to Sakura(S) and Kakashi(S) we have another way of countering all those overused teams.

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Posted on August 28, 2008 15:33

navigodofwar
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#322

man itachi was evenly balanced and i was close to unlocking itachi body double one win away and now im losing horribly none of the teams ive tried are working itachi is a pathetic waste of a character and ill never unlock sasori or kbd or itachi body double plz raise it to 15 because uneven numbers are impossible to work with

itachi is an akatsuki he massacered the uchiha clan and sakon is some person who is just a member of the sound five which all died to genins

if youre going to give itachi a lame attack you should at least make tsukuyomi do damage because he left kakashi in a hospital with it he needs to be able to do some decent damage

2 extra damage isnt a lot to ask for petes sake itachi body double does a 25 AoE and counters skills and suplies for his own chakra cost

and sure his stun lasts 3 turns but if someone has a sakura s or shizune they can easily break it and if the do it on the healr they can still atack with their main character

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Posted on August 28, 2008 15:45

yodaz
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#323

that is what i'm saying though, nidame is an every OTHER turn counter and he has to waste the turn doing that...in other words, every other turn you would have to use up a genjutsu as well as nidame's move for that turn to protect yourself from melee skills. While kakashi (s) is slightly better against stun teams in terms of chakra efficiency he doesn't counter the stun or make it so you can't be stun'd, he just reduces it by a turn. Furthermore, neither character is as devastating to there supposed "rival" as zabuza is. And while your right that they don't have that "auto win" feel against all teams, the fact of the matter is, zabuza has that auto win against ranged physical AND can be used fairly well against non ranged physical teams as well. Not too hard to guess that an auto win of about 30-40% of the ladder teams +decent odds against other teams = win % is too high....its one thing to say that he should have an advantage against those teams, another to say that its more or less an auto win where the other team has close to no chance of winning, which could only occur if the can't use there moveset for long durations of time, which is what is happening. It can be like a three turn stun that can be re-implemented the turn after it wears off and on top of that lets zabuza use one of the most efficient moves in the game. Adding the additional turn for the cooldown would at least give them the chance to make a come back and i doubt that it would highly effect zabuza's use against non ranged physical teams...it seems like a win/win and easy way to balance it out.

Posted on August 28, 2008 15:54

loafery
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#324

Quote by dawsoe20

Those characters don't give you a guaranteed win like you said, they only give you a better chance than your opponent. I totally agree about how these characters aren't good against all teams, cos they have their own weaknesses as well. I don't think we'll have to worry about zabuza for a while because his weakness is in the fact that he cost a lot of chakra to use. I think it seems fair. And the point that he uses 3 different chakra makes him weary to put him into any specific team. i want to use him as a gen user, but it's just not efficient cos after you do mist there's no use for the gen anymore. Moreover, if i wanted to use him as a tai user i'd want to use homicide with mist to greater its effects, but then it'll make zabuza a prep character and that's just real inefficient.

edit:
@yodaz

I guess it's time ppl learn how to use hybrid teams, not just full on ranged aoe teams. And to be honest for homicide to be good you'd need to have a tai in stock every turn, which is i don't know like playing with lee. And we know lee's quite the botched up character. Too dependent one move one strat. mist + homicide is when zabuza is at its best, other times he just seems to waste chakra.

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Posted on August 28, 2008 19:50

isOhunteR
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#325

Another change of theme from me .

.

Seriously i cant understand why Jiraiyas mission have to be at a Double pace of difficulty than the other 2 sannins.

The mission need 2 streaks of +5 with Kakashi and Naruto. And 14 wins against Sakura Shizune Sasuke and Kabuto with KAkashi or Naruto in your team. You see the other missions need 7 wins against Naruto Kakashi Sasuke . E.T.C . I mean it is exactly the Double . And the real problem isnt only that. The last part of the mission " Defeat 14 kabutos with Kakashi or Naruto in your team . Firstly the chance of facing a kabuto is extremely low cause the only mission u need him to is Oros with only 5 streak. Secondly cause people dont use him much on their own. And the worst of all is that Even if u find him 14 times " very difficult" , You have to beat the team . You know drainers are the worst opponent for naruto and Kakashi. They use too much chackra and especially naruto needs preperation to make moves.

At least cut out the " 14 wins". I hear that every one has problem on his mission when they try to unlock him . And the cherry in the cake comes now . Jiraiyas mission is a requirement to Sandaime which's team is requirement to Shodaime and Nidaime. I mean wow. Most people when reach Jiraiya say . Omg i am stucked.

I dont think Kakashi and Naruto are better chars than Sasuke Kabuto Sakura and Shizune to need 14 wins....

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Posted on August 28, 2008 19:50

yodaz
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#326

Oh, i completely agree, zab's main use is mist +homocide. I think you have it wrong about using the different type of chakra though, I find it to be a plus, not a minus. While your right that he can't fulfill being a gen user he does fulfill tai and the fact that he occasionally uses gen just means that you don't have to worry as much if you don't have a gen user.

Furthermore i disagree with what your saying in regards to him using too much chakra. Increasing the duration of HMT to 3 rounds actually makes it worthwhile. Look at it this way, kakashi (s) requires 2 specific chakra to do 45 non counterable piercing damage to one enemy with a two round cooldown. Zabuza can do that and ignore invulnerability for 3 consecutive rounds for the cost of 1 gen and 1 random. While he can do this every round he doesn't actually need to in order to be efficient. Even using it only once and having the rest of the team follow up is usually enough to kill a character. I'm not saying that he doesn't work better when paired with other characters who are chakra efficient, obviously thats going to help. But theres such an abundance of them now that it really isn't a problem.

Also, i think your misreading what i am saying in regards to ranged physical teams. Its not that there are that many people who use mainly or all ranged physical teams, its that currently zabuza has close to an auto win against them were as other characters don't. Then factor in that zab actually can do decently against non ranged physical teams and your most likely left with him having a win % that's too high. If i'm wrong about the win % then obviously there's no problem and alls well that ends well and all that. I'd actually pretty happy if that was the case since playing with and against stronger characters tends to be more fun. But I'm fairly confident that he won't be in an acceptable % range once luap gets enough stats on him.

edit:
Even when your opponent only has one character with a ranged physical move HMT is still fairly devastating, thats another part that largely contributes to it. For example, it takes the bite out of both kankuro and chiyo pretty well, shodai becomes close to useless, kisame can't stun, kisame bd can't use sharks, shizune can't use hidden needles, kin can't combo bells and illusion duplication attack, and the list goes on. So even having one character who has ranged physical tends to be pretty devastating.

Posted on August 28, 2008 20:27

VincentDirge
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#327

Since we're talking about Zabuza let's see...

His new boost gives him the capability to kill a character in three turns. As Yodaz said, he is mainly used to mist+homicide, making him a great counter for cheap AoE teams, being able to break some combos and also dealing some nice piercing damage in the process, ignoring invulnerability.

Regarding the shippuuden missions: I think the "Win 8 battles in a row" for Tenten S and Neji S should be reduced to that of Lee S' or Sakura S' missions, making it a +4 or a +5.

I really don't see why the streak should be higher than the others for those two missions.

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Posted on August 28, 2008 20:40

dawsoe20
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#328

Quote by loafery

Quote by dawsoe20

Those characters don't give you a guaranteed win like you said

*scans previous post*
Umm no I didn't say those characters give you a guaranteed win -.^

Back on topic though, Zabuza is pretty balanced at the moment. I think Kisame BD could use a little adjustment to his stun...either remove the beneficial effects clause or add a one turn cooldown. I do like the new Kisame BD, but I think this one more is in need of some tweaking.

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Posted on August 28, 2008 20:45

trickymaster007
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#329

Quote by dawsoe20

Quote by loafery

Quote by dawsoe20

Those characters don't give you a guaranteed win like you said

I think you are right!

may be greater damage output?!

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Posted on August 28, 2008 21:11

isOhunteR
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#330

Try do Jiraiyas

. Almost imposible to do it in less than a month.

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